Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. I'm really excited about today. So I told my husband I need to record a podcast because I had something happen, and I'll go into it a little bit with my three-year-old. This idea just landed, and so I'm calling today's episode “Power Struggles and Your Business.”
And so I'm going to give two stories. And this is from today and from - let's see, oh my goodness - a long time ago, like 12 years ago. So, we'll start with the one with my three-year-old. So if you've ever raised a three-year-old, you know. I like joke that she's my “three-nager.”
We get into power struggles, and the way that I think of a power struggle is one person wants one thing and the other person wants something that is like in direct opposition. And it's not just parenting, but I think parenting is a really easy example. The parent wants the kid to eat their vegetables or brush their teeth and the kid is like, no, I don't want to, you can't make me. And I don't have teenagers, but I have lots of clients who are parents of teenagers, and I know that teenagers can be similar. I was a teenager, you were probably a teenager, and whether you were hardcore power struggling or not, I think you can see this dynamic in lots of relationships where it's I'm right and I think differently than you, and I'm going to try to force you to do what I want you to do.
It often does not end very well, if you've ever been in a power struggle. It usually ends with both people very upset. Even if you get your way, it doesn't feel good to get your way when you've been in a power struggle or you don't get your way, and it can damage the relationship.
Either way, I just don't think power struggles are awesome, at all. So anyway, I found myself in a power struggle with my three-year-old about something. And it's like this recurring thing that's happening in our relationship, not just with me, but with my husband and with our nanny, and she's very strong-willed.
And so, I'm laughing about it now, but truth be told, it has definitely challenged me. I have cried about it. I have prayed about it. I have thought very deeply about how I can be creative and to use a different approach that would work for us. One of the things I learned early on in my psychology development or understanding journey was that you want to exit a power struggle as soon as you can. So here's a fun story I don't think I've ever told on this podcast. In college and shortly after college, I worked at a residential treatment center.
I think I've mentioned that on the podcast. I don't think I've ever shared this specific story though. So I was working at a treatment center for girls who really struggled. They struggled with anxiety or depression, self-harm, some of them with drug use, but most of them it was just like, they were struggling with mental health.
I worked as a residential staff, so I would eat with them, help them get to classes. I would have conversations with them. I was trained as what they called a values coach, so I was basically on their team. I was helping them succeed with life.
There was obviously more girls than there were staff, so we had to be creative in how we kept girls safe, how we assisted and supported them and things like that, especially if one was acting out. On this one day, there was a girl that was very much acting out. She had, I would say physical violence. It was very rare where I worked and this particular girl, I think, was more violent than other girls that we had been accustomed to.
And so we got into a power struggle. I can't even remember what it was about. It might've been, she needed to go to an activity and she didn't want to. Like I said, a power struggle is two opposing desires in the relationship. As the staff member, I was going to help her go to school, help her - I was forcing her to go to school.
She did not want to go to school, I think, or an activity. I can't remember, but I was like, you need to go to school. You're not being safe cause like, she was throwing things and yelling and calling us names and things. Anyway, I was really pushing the issue because I was a young staff at this time, and so I had not been exposed to this extreme level of violence, and I'll say what I mean in a second.
So she had picked up a fire extinguisher, like one of those big red ones. I didn't even know that it could come out. So she had picked it up and was gonna throw it at me, and there was another staff at that point who had kind of intervened. We were trying to get her to calm down without her throwing the fire extinguisher at our faces.
I'm laughing now, but I was very nervous because I really cared about the girls that I worked with. I really wanted to do right by them, but we were definitely engaged in a struggle. A power struggle because, I'll share the lessons later, but there was a way that I could have exited the power struggle, safely for both of us.
And we would have had a better relationship, which that lesson comes later, and I'm going to definitely share it. But to wrap up this crazy story, one of the other staff helped her. She kind of came from behind and took the fire extinguisher. I made a move. I can't remember exactly how I got close, but basically what happened is she dropped the fire extinguisher and then punched me in the face like smack on the chin, just like punched me right in the face.
And I remember being really dazed. But we ended up putting her into a hold, which is basically keeping her in a locked position, which I have mixed feelings about now looking back. But that's what we did at the time, that's what I was trained to do. So we put her in a hold until she calmed down, and I ended up needing to talk to my supervisor and stuff because getting punched is kind of a big deal.
Anyway, so that's the story of how I got punched in the face because of a power struggle. In my mind, I was trying to do the right thing. I was trying to do my job. I was trying to keep her safe. I was trying to get her to go to the activity that she was supposed to go to.
What's interesting about that is that whole scenario actually brought me and this girl closer, but one of the things that I learned from that was talking to my supervisor who I learned so much from. Her name was Jess, and she was like, “Hey, can we talk about what happened?” And so I told her everything that went down, and she had been there for years, and was very wise with interactions and people and things like that.
She told me this line that I still think about all the time. She's like, you can't win a power struggle. You can only exit a power struggle and create something else. This is so good for parenting, for marriage, for clients, for what we're gonna talk about today, like how this applies to your business. But this is so useful. I'm going to say it again. You can't ever win a power struggle, you can only exit the power struggle and create something else. And so I had this “aha” today after getting into a power struggle with my three-year-old, and I try not to because I'm very conscious.
I definitely consider myself a conscious parent. I try to be very mindful, and I do a lot of my own nervous system regulation so that I'm a calm, present, thoughtful mother. That's very important to me. And so we don't really get into these crazy situations very often. But with this interesting thing that's happening for my three-year-old, we find ourselves in this dance.
Like, oh, we're here again. Like, you’re fighting me on this one more time. I'm trying to be mindful and loving, but we're in the power struggle, and this little thought echoed in my head. It was like, you can't win a power struggle. You have to exit the power struggle and create something else.
And so I was like, yeah, I'm going to create something else. Like I said, I'm sharing two different examples from it, but we're going to tie it to business. I promise. One of the questions that I asked myself was, how can we both win? Cause in a power struggle, only one person can win. Either you get what you want or I get what I want, but we can't win. We have opposing things that we want. And that's why it's so useful to exit the power struggle because that is not how great relationships thrive. And so when I asked myself that question is how can we both get what we want?
I had creative solutions pop into my mind, and I was inspired and I had a different energy about creating this solution for Lainey. She's three, it's not like she's analyzing me. She's just like, no, I don't want to. I don't want to do that. And what else did she say?
Like, I'm going to close the door on you. All these little cute sayings that she told me. She's like, I don't like you and tried to spit on me, all sorts of stuff, you guys. It's very wild to have a three-year-old who's very headstrong, and I love that for her.
She's fierce and independent, and I want to keep that fire in her. And sometimes parenting is required. I need to help her be safe. I need to help her be healthy. And that's kind of what has been going on is I wanted to help her be healthy. Anyway, I had that idea of how can we both win. And it just changed the dynamic and the details don't even really matter.
I'm not sharing the details on purpose, because I don't know, maybe Lainey will listen to this one day and I want to protect her privacy. But for me, it was such a big “aha” like we can both win if I exit the power struggle. If I stopped trying to be right. If I stopped trying to assert my dominance or whatever, we can both win.
I've had this happen in different parenting scenarios, but the “aha” for me was so strong for business that I wanted to share this story. It was how can we both win? And this is where it gets business-related because I work with clients all the time who are in a power struggle with their own business.
I'm going to demonstrate what I mean by that. When I say my clients are in a power struggle with their own business, it's like one of two scenarios. Either their business is showing them data that they are unwilling to look at. Maybe it's like there's data that something is not working and they refuse to look at it, to the data I mean, and make a change.
This sounds like the quote, attributed to Albert Einstein, where it's insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. I would say you are engaged in a power struggle. This is what I think the nuanced question becomes is how do I know if I need to do more of the same thing until I get the result? Or if I haven't even done enough?
What I found is most newbies and I love newbies. I use that word very endearingly. This isn't newbie as like a bad thing, but I would say within my first $25,000 in business, I would say I just didn't do enough. That was like my marker.
I just did not make enough offers. I did not post enough times. I did not launch enough. I did not have enough consults. I was just new, and so I needed to do more. What I think happens is over time you start to learn what works. And so if there's something that's not working in your business, and you strong arm it. If you try to force it to work, even though the data is showing you, it's not working. That is a signal. If you've gotten results in business and it's just this one thing that's not working, to me that's a signal that you probably need to change and look according to the data. The market will tell you what's working and what's not based on how much money you're making.
I wanted to differentiate that. Like if you're brand new, my guess is you need to do more. Don't give up yet. You actually don't have enough data to make that call. You're probably not strong-arming. You probably need to keep going, versus something that's like maybe you've had success.
Maybe you've passed six figures and you're experimenting with a new offer structure or whatever. And you're trying to force something over and over and over again, and it's not working. It's not landing. It's time to change it up. Whether that's changing how you talk about the offer. Whether that's changing the price of the offer.
I would say mostly it's the messaging and the big promise of the offer. It's usually not the offer itself. It's how you're talking about it or how you're selling it that needs to change. I just get more data, do more experiments, try more things, be willing to risk more. I think is the answer.
That's how we can strong-arm our business. The other way that this can show up is where you really want to force something to work. What's a better way to explain that? So it's like you are ready. Maybe you have a vague idea of something that you want to work. This is how I've noticed this in my business is I have this idea.
Maybe I'm on a walk or I'm listening to an audiobook or I'm journaling and I have this idea strike and I'm like, ooh, I want to make that come to life. We're entrepreneurs. We take the unseen and we make it seen. And so I'm like, I want to get to work. I want to make this real. I want to do all these things.
What I noticed is I don't have the whole picture or if I don't feel like the price is clear to me or like, I don't know how long it's going to be or like what I'm going to teach inside of it. Maybe like while I was journaling, I got the name of a program, but I don't know how I'm going to actually teach it.
Strong arming to me looks like I'm going to force it. I know I'm strong-arming something in my business like I'm engaged in a power struggle. I want it to work faster than the business is ready, almost like the idea. Like the idea my business is trying to give me is not ready. And I know that sounds a little woo, but I think you're here for it.
When I have the idea of the name of a program, my business is giving me inspiration and then I want the whole picture. I want every detail. I want the messaging. I want the price. I want how long it's going to be, and I want the logo and everything. And the business is like just trust me.
So sometimes the power struggle with the business is the ideas aren't clear right away. The strong-arming or the power struggle looks like you trying to force it. Trying to force it looks like you sitting at your desk, scrolling social media, writing ideas over and over and over on a piece of paper.
Or like just spinning your wheels. You can't move on from the idea. And I'm laughing because I have been there so many times, and this context of like the power struggle really helped me see what happens. I'm trying to force something too soon. I'm trying to make something happen when it's not ready.
The other way that this has shown up for me is trying to force the action before I have the clarity. Also like trying to force the action when I don't have the capacity. So what that looks like for me is I am not willing to work 40 hours a week right now in my business.
I'm just not. I want to spend time with my kids. That means that not every idea I have has a place in my business right now. A lot of my clients are like moms raising children, and the bittersweetness of business, while you're a younger mom, is like making that call is such a gift that you can turn your business on and off like a faucet.
But sometimes it is almost like grief. Like I have this idea and I know I can't do it in this season because it would require too much of me. Stuff that I'm not willing to give. That doesn't mean that I give up on my dream. It just means there's some things in the season that makes sense.
And some things in the season that don't make sense. And I'm choosing to delay the things for the sake of the long-term health of all the things I want in life, including my family success, including my business success, things like that. And so you have to be really discerning on whether this is like a cop-out. Like I'm trying to get away from doing the work or if it's truly not in this season.
That's beyond the scope of this podcast, but if you need coaching on that, please send me a DM. I would be happy to coach you through it on your personal stuff. But that's another place that I've noticed that sometimes I want to force something so I can force action without clarity. I'm in a power struggle.
I can force action without the capacity too, and that is power struggle. The way that that's looked specifically is when I watch YouTube videos or listen to podcasts of people who are either way ahead of me in business, and have kids.
Or they don't have children, and so the way that they've built their business is just a completely different path than me. Sometimes I will judge myself, and this is why I think comparison without judgment is really healthy. But comparison with judgment is really damaging.
And so when I compare myself to business gurus and people who made millions of dollars in net worth, and they grew this huge business and I'm like, I should be doing that. It's like, no, I was raising kids. Like I need to stop comparing myself with so much judgment.
I noticed if I'm not mindful, I can engage in the power struggle of trying to force something one that I really don't want in the season of my life, and in motherhood. And so can force something that I don't have enough clarity yet. Those two things, do I have the clarity that I need?
And do I have the capacity for the vision that I have? I've worked with a few clients who like have a job. And they don't have that much capacity for a business because they're trying to kind of do both until they make enough in their business to quit their job. That's a very different scenario than someone who started the business while they were living with their parents and only had to do that.
That's an extreme example, but hopefully you get the point. When we look at our own clarity and our own capacity, I think we can decide if we're in a power struggle or not, or else you get punched in the face. My story at the beginning when I was working at the treatment center, like I got punched in the face because I was unwilling to exit the power struggle.
I wanted to be right. In this specific scenario, like I wanted to save her and I can create a whole another podcast on that. I'm not going to, but like, I was trying to exert my will over her and she was not going to have that. And so what I learned with this particular student and others because I actually went on to become an assistant supervisor at a treatment center.
And that doesn't mean anything unless you know the specific treatment center I'm talking about, but like I started training. I started having more leadership responsibilities. And so, I grew as a staff member, as a support, as a leader in that scenario because of that situation. I learned how to exit power struggles so that we both win, and it's always about preserving the relationship.
So if we apply this to business, I want to preserve the relationship I have with business. I don't want to make it do something. I don't want to make it bend to my will because then someone loses. If you're in a power struggle, someone will lose, or you exit the power struggle completely to create something else.
If you have found yourself in a power struggle with your business, maybe you don't have clarity and you're trying to force action. Maybe you don't have capacity and you're trying to force action or you're trying to strong-arm your ideas.
You're trying to make something work that the data is showing you it's not working. And this does not mean give up. Please do not hear me say give up. That means you make a pivot. You look at the data and you were like, oh, this isn't working. As an example, I call it my “offer graveyard.”
I have so many offers that I have tried and failed, but that didn't mean that I was a failure as the entrepreneur. It meant that offer was not a good fit for my people. The power struggle was like, I would have kept selling the things that the data was showing people didn't want.
Even podcast episodes, I look at what you guys listen to. I look at what gets shared, and I make a mental note, so I can create more of that. And it doesn't mean anything if I launch a podcast that you guys don't like, and the data it's like, ooh, that episode did not land. I don't make it mean like, I'm not cut out to be a coach.
It's like, oh, I'm going to use that data, make an informed decision to create something new. Power struggle would look like I'm going to do this because this is what I want, and I don't care what my audience says. And entrepreneurs who do that burn out and quit because there is a co-creation that we have with our business, with our audience, with our community, with our clients. They show us what we want based on their likes, their listens, their buys. And we give them what they want based on the data. One of the things that I just think is so useful is this idea of not be in a power struggle with your business. And I just want to take a second briefly before we wrap up.
If you are in a power struggle with your business, whether you're forcing action and you don't have clarity or you're forcing action and you don't have capacity. Just that awareness will help you make a new choice. This is not a permission slip to judge. It's just an invitation to get curious.
So this is one of my favorite questions to ask myself about my business. How can me and my business get what we want? And so some of my answers, when I think about that, it's a long-term play. If my business wants to grow to its natural, I don't know, progression. As big as my business feels like it wants to go with me at its head.
That means that some things are going to be a long-term play. I feel like the podcast has been like that. I didn't create anything from my podcast in the first couple of years. I didn't sign any clients.
I don't even know how many listens - I’d have to look it up. It'd be really interesting to see that. I chose to create a podcast because I could see the long-term vision. And I still feel that way, even though now my podcast produces results in the form of clients and cash and things like that, it did not start that way.
But I also know there's another level I can go to, obviously. Very, very obviously. There's like infinite levels. And so some of the things when I ask how do me and my business both get what we want. My business wants recurring revenue. My business wants impact. My business wants to make a difference through coaching the health of my business needs, recurring revenue, and a tax strategy, and support and things like that to make it function great.
What do I want out of my business and how can we align those goals? There's a great book. Actually, I’m going to recommend two: “How to Grow Your Small Business” by Donald Miller and “The E-Myth Revisited” by Michael Gerber. Both of those books are great. They really helped me see like I am not my business. I am a personal brand.
So in many ways it is very closely aligned, but there's things that I need and then there's things that my business needs. My business needs cashflow. My business needs content creation. My business needs to be in a good standing with the tax man. There's lots of things that my business needs that I don't necessarily need, but there's a huge overlap. The overlap for me and my business is obviously strong. So asking that question, how do we both get what we want? And you could apply this to parenting, marriage, like I mentioned. I think it's a really useful tool in business too. The next question that you've probably heard in different contexts, if you listen to coaching podcasts, would I rather be right or rather be rich?
And so to go to that scene, when I was with the girl at the treatment center, I asked that question subconsciously, obviously to myself, and I wanted to be right. I wanted to be the person that got her to do the thing. I wanted to be right. Instead of being kind, instead of being useful to her, I chose to be right. And I got punched in the face. Whenever I can, it's like, I don't want to be right. I want to be rich. I don't want to be right. I want the relationship with my three-year-old. This is what I chose today.
And actually it's gonna make me emotional. Cause we ended up going to the park because, like I said, I chose to ask myself, how can we both win, and how you can both win is if she did the thing. We got to go to the park, it was raining and it wasn't - it was like cold but like, I almost cried cause felt like such a triumph for our relationship that we could meet somewhere in the middle to create what we both wanted. What we both wanted was connection for her to be healthy and safe. For her to do the things that she knows she needs to do. To have pride in her decisions, even though she's three. I know that that's a thing. And I think that can be applied to business too, is like, do you want to be right about your business or do you want to make money? Do you want to be right about it being hard or that you're not cut out for this or that everyone else has it easier? Or do you want to create phenomenal success?
And I think that question when applied to specific scenarios is very, very powerful. I remember I've shared this inside the Matrix, my group coaching program, a lot of times, but one of the limiting beliefs I had, I just wasn't that interesting. I didn't have like a very interesting life.
I wasn't this interesting person that people would want to learn from. It felt so true. I thought I was just describing how people saw me, but that was a belief. I remember really doing this work, and was like, oh, I can be right about that. Well, I'm not that interesting, so no one's going to buy or share my stuff.
Or I can learn how to make money, and that required a different belief about myself that people were interested in what I had to do. And what's interesting is when I did that work, that's when my business started being shared. Which by the way, P.S. little plug, that is how my business grows. That is how this message gets to spread, this idea of like holistic success and doing business your way and the optimum. That's my message. Share it with a friend. That's how we get it around the world. But I really feel like my business started to grow with referrals when I started to believe that. It's possible that people find me interesting.
It's possible that people are interested in what I have to say instead of buying into my story that I'm just not that interesting. The next tool, and the last tool that I'm going to share, is to take a step away, especially if you are in a power struggle with your business. Take time away from it. Get a different perspective. When I'm working on a problem, and it is not coming to me, or like the download didn't hit, or I don't have the clarity, I leave. I leave my desk. I leave the idea even mentally. I go on a walk. Byron Katie has a great process for going on a walk, but not labeling anything.
And I try to do that. I walk and I don't look at a tree and say, that's a tree. The tree is green. It's just like being with the tree. I try to like release all my thoughts and judgments and labels of the world. And I try to be so present because I'm not trying to solve this problem.
And if I don't do the presence, my brain will want to solve the problem. I think this is true about relationships too, so with my three-year-old today. I was like, oh, I'm going to exit this power struggle, and so I ended up being silly with her. We were like really serious. We were like in the power struggle, and all of a sudden that thought blossomed in my mind about exiting the power struggle.
And I was like, I'm going to be silly. I'm going to make her laugh. There's no reason that we need to be fighting about this. I'm going to be fun. We're going to have a fun time creating the solution together.
I think the same is true about our business. Don't take it so seriously especially if it's something that feels really heavy or that's a big decision. Go on a walk. Put it down for a while. Read some fiction. Watch a TV show; that will not burn your business down.
Take time away from it to get the perspective that you need, and it'll feel different when you pick it up again. And so that's another tool that I think. So the three things that I shared is how do we both get what we want and answering and then obviously integrating that question. Do I want to be right or do I want to be rich? Do I want to be right or do I want to have this relationship be great?
Do I want to be right or do I want to be happy? Do I want to be right or do I want to enjoy this? There's so many different variations. What's interesting is our egos always want to be right. But usually that creates a lot of angst and suffering.
One of the things that has deeply, deeply served me is I really let go of my need to be right about many things. That helps me see possibilities in places that I used to feel stuck, and so I wanted to share it. Then the last tool is take a break. Exit the power struggle. Get some perspective.
I hope this episode was helpful, obviously for your business, but hopefully other places too. I'm just going to quote what my supervisor Jess said that was so good. She's like, you can't win a power struggle. You can only exit a power struggle and create something else. And so if you've been in a power struggle, this is your invitation, create something else.
I'll talk to you soon.
