Hello, hello! Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited to continue the interview series that we have going on the podcast. I have Allie Hill on the podcast today, and Allie is a coach, an author, and a speaker for Empty Nest Moms. And I met Allie when I was actually speaking at Katie Borland's retreat.
I had Catie Borland on the podcast last week, and I just think it's really serendipitous that I have both of them on pretty close together. So today we're talking about conscious empty nesting. And even though I'm not an empty nester, I coach a lot of women who are empty nesters. It's a time of life where many women start something new, and so I think it's a really relevant conversation.
This is just my perspective after wrapping up my conversation with Allie. The world is different, right? And so if you're listening to this podcast and you're an empty nester, but even if you're not an empty nester, if you have adult children, if you are an adult child and you're navigating a relationship with your aging parents, I still think this is a useful episode.
How to have conversations, how to ask for what you need, how to pour into yourself, how to navigate new boundaries with your partner, with your kids, with your parents, like all of it is so relevant. And so I really enjoyed my conversation with Allie. I know you're going to love her. I know you're going to love our conversation. So let's jump in to Conscious Empty Nesting.
Amber: All right. Welcome to the podcast, Allie.
Allie: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here, Amber. This is going to be so fun.
Amber: I know. We're going to have so much fun. So you're an author, you're a speaker, you're a coach, you help empty nest women. But I think just like, I don't know, I just find you so empowering and loving for people's journeys. So how would you describe where you're at today, what you're up to? Give us a little intro.
Allie: Okay. So I think that the best way, and it's funny that you asked me this because I was trying to do this in one of those goal setting books, you know, and they're like, if you didn't know you, how would you describe yourself? And you start out nice, then you're like, I'm wise, I'm happy, I'm this. And I'm like, okay, let's get a little bit underneath. I would say, you know, who I am today is I hope that I am an example of what can happen in your midlife.
When my daughter went off to college now, seven years ago, I was just unanchored. I was untethered in that process because I just poured so much into her and the family. And I was singularly focused. And when she left, you know, she went out of state to Arizona and she took all her stuff with her and then kind of took my heart and my identity, took it all with her to Arizona.
And it sounds dramatic to say that she took my reason for getting up in the morning, but that's how I felt. That's how I felt since 2017. I think that my journey from then to now is first, I was catastrophically sad, but still open to the possibilities of something's going to come my way. And it came by way of an email of a friend of a friend said, I just think you might like life coaching. And this was Martha Beck's thing. So I did her program. And I think just that combination of being a little bit open, having no idea. I didn't even know what life coaching was at that point.
And then being open to, okay maybe I won't be a life coach, but maybe I want to just sign up for this course and then kind of letting things unfold from there. So I'm a person who actually doesn't love uncertainty, but is okay pausing enough to let in the possibilities and staying open to them. And I'd say that's really been the key to, I wouldn't even say my success, but the key to my journey.
Amber: That's beautiful. Pausing to be open to possibilities.
Allie: Yeah.
Amber: I love your book so much and I love some of the stories. I was dying when you're talking about the flight from Africa. We can talk about that.
Allie: I call myself out so many times that…
Amber: You were really vulnerable.
Allie: Did I really put that in print? Okay.
Amber: But like, it's so relatable, even like your inner dialogue, I feel like about when, you know, the different phases of releasing and then creating your life, you know, that it was just so relatable because a lot of even the title and like, we'll put this in the show notes, but like, it's A Girlfriend's Guide. It's not like, let me tell you how to live your life from this pedestal. It's like, listen, I live this. These are the tools that help me on my way.
Allie: Yeah. Come into my living room and let's chat. I'll tell you mine.
Amber: That's how it reads. It was so fun. You walk through your own… I know it's not like you're out of it. You're in a different phase now of emptiness. But kind of let's start with like, it's not like it was pretty terrifying, awful, confronting, hard.
Allie: Everybody's journey is different. So I want to normalize that it's very normal to feel a period of grief when your kids go off to college or university or just out of the house, whatever that may be. You're holding these two separate emotions of pride and excitement. Maybe it's more than two. And then grief and sadness. I feel like I'm always holding a bushel. And like, that's normal.
You can be so happy for your child and then wake up the next day and go, oh my gosh, I completely forgot about me. What about me? And the next feeling is selfishness and guilt. It's working through all of those emotions and really holding a lot of grace for yourself in the process and saying, okay, what is that voice? Is that my highest self?
Is that some voice of judgment or is that just fear? You know, as life coaches, we know we get to choose. Is that really going to propel me forward? That's my curiosity and openness. I fall back on those all the time when I can remember. I mean, truth be told, you know, when fear's got their grip, I have to remember, Okay, no, no, I can show up another way for myself.
Amber: Yeah. Curiosity. How else did you lead yourself? Because I mean, you didn't just like instantly figure it all out, kind of walk away. Cited for her, too. It's not like it was all bad and hard. You know, there was like a lot of amazing things happening at the same time.
Allie: Totally. So I think the journey for me was, well, I never do anything easily. So I will say that I always have to get sick and all of that. So I would say that once I was back at home and trying to say, okay, Allie, those were those two decades. What are you going to do now? For me, it was that curiosity of what does this life coaching thing sound like? And really, it can be anything that sparks a light of something in you.
You know, Martha Beck calls the breadcrumbs and the breadcrumbs are the universe or God's way of leading little crumbs or paddles along the way that spark something in you that you are open enough and willing to go, huh, I wonder what that means. For instance, I had this client, Julie, and I love this story because I think it illustrates even more than my story about life coaching. But she's a friend of mine and very, very in the beginning, she said, I have no idea what to do. Kids are launched. What now?
And we were just kind of walking through our steps. There's a four step process of reflection and remembering who we were. And she said, the oddest thing is, I'm getting all these postcards in the mail and they're like art openings, they're galleries. And she said, I'm not an artist. I don't know why I'm getting these all of a sudden. I'm like, well, what are you doing with them? She said, I'm putting them up on my refrigerator. Like, well, that's cool.
The next week she came back and she says, okay, you're not going to believe what happened. I'm having coffee with a friend and I see on the wall of the coffee shop, there's a watercolor class. And I'm like, yes. And she said, I went up and read it and it says beginning watercoloring. It's the kind of tab that you like pull the phone number off. It's like so old school. And she's like, I called the number and I'm like, yes. She goes, I just gave myself permission.
I said, I'm just going to go. I know I'm not a watercolor. I have no idea why I'm here. If I don't like it in 10 minutes, I can leave. Or I can just do this one class. I guess it was like a six part series. My client's now a watercolor. That was the breadcrumb. That was the universe saying, what about watercoloring? And it doesn't have to be that, but she was looking at the postcards. She saw the bulletin board and she followed it. And it's that willingness to say yes to new things, I think is so important in this phase.
Amber: Yeah. I think too. I don't want to use the word rut, but like you get into a routine, a certain routine with your kids and then it's like ripped out from under, you know, it's coming, but like, then you're left with empty space, right? Like, what do you want to fill it with? And so I love that. And that is a beautiful story of like following the breadcrumbs, which are always happening for everyone.
Allie: They are. If we sort of make the intention in the morning, I'm going to look for the signs. I don't know what it is. I've done the walk where you find five new things. And I do the same walk when I'm in Denver with my dog. I've done it for 25 years around the block, around the block, five new things. And I'm like, okay, I didn't see that leaf before. Wait, who painted their mailbox? And it's practicing that muscle of noticing new things. I think that's such a simple example.
Amber: Yeah. I love it. And it's a way of training your mind instead of focusing on all of the stuff that's not going well or that's missing. It's like, what is here? What's available?
Allie: Exactly.
Amber: So amazing. Okay. So you told a little bit about your story and Julie's at the beginning. Now you've coached hundreds of people and spoken to so many people. What are some of the things that you see that as like either like the strings that run through or like the themes that come up?
Allie: I think one of the main ones is, and this kind of caught me off guard because I'm not so sure I felt this, but when moms or midlife women turn from pouring into their families and their children and their partner and turn to themselves, one emotion that often pops up is selfishness and like a little bit of guilt. And I'm like, wow. Okay. Tell me more about that. And it's just so unfamiliar. I think you actually spoke about this in one of your podcast episodes that when we pour into ourselves, we're helping the world.
The more we do that's good for us is good for others. And what I often have to do for these particular clients is liken it back to and say, okay, let's go back to your children. You're role modeling for them. So let's look at how you want to show up as your best self so that A, you're role modeling and also your kids and your spouse don't want to worry about you.
You know, and if they see moms getting out of bed or mom sounds sad on the phone all the time, or is calling me and texting me 24 hours, mom's not okay. Even if that's not actually talked about, they feel it. They're looking and going, wow, mom's playing pickleball. Mom picked up mahjong. Mom's starting a course at the university. Like, well, is that for mom? That's pretty neat. So that was one thing that showed up.
Amber: And it's unique because I think most women don't think about that, especially, you know, I think when your kids are young, it's different because kids only notice what you're doing for them. But when your kids are older, they do start to want you to have your own wellbeing, you know?
Allie: And there's a caveat. There's this, okay. So also when you have raised your children and you're available 24 seven, well, this is my journey. So I don't think all moms are like this, but when you have an only child and you have raised them, you can, yes, every extra curricular activity, I'll sign up for all the room mom position, all of those things, they're very used to your focus and attention.
And then when they come home, whether it's for like a Christmas break or the summer, and you're not available because you started this whole another chapter. I mean, literally I had my daughter say to me, she came home, I think it's maybe freshman, sophomore year. And she said, I want to go get our nails done. I'm like, can't, I've got calls.
The next day, want to go get coffee? I'm like, can't, I've got this. And they start for a couple of days and finally she earns and said, I liked you better before. And I said, what do you mean? And she said, when you were always available, you just waited for me to ask you to do something. And I thought, you know, so many thoughts like, wow, was I that pathetic?
And then, but also like, there was so much like, I really was available. And then maybe after a year, I mean, it only took a little maturity on her part to come back and say, I'm so proud of you. I know what I said. And now like, this is amazing. You're doing amazing things. And wow, who knew? Kind of like, nobody was surprised.
Amber: Yeah. I'm sure there's a transition for both of you for her adjusting to the way that you live your life now, as well as adjusting for as well.
Allie: Right. And it's kind of the keeping that communication really open and saying, you know, again, I'll call myself out. Jim and I, my husband and I went to parents weekend. So freshman year, I'm going to say it's early, mid-October. My daughter said, mom, I love you. We need to talk. I was like, I feel like I've had this conversation before roles reverse. And I said, yes.
And she said, can you please stop calling me and texting me 24 seven? It makes me feel so guilty when I don't answer or can't. And I want to get back to you. And I love hearing from you, but can you just bring it down just a little bit? And I was like, instant wave of shame and embarrassment. And then I was like, how great that she felt comfortable.
Amber: She could tell you.
Allie: She could tell me. And I said, I think the other important part is I said to her, absolutely. I hear you. I will do better. I've got some non-negotiables like the Friday, Saturday night when you're out. I do need a little home tech. So when I wake up in three in the morning, I know that you're there. And like, I just remind you, we've never done this before.
I've never done this before. You haven't done it. So we're moving through this together. And thank you for asking. And I love that. And yes, I'll do better. But such a different role than I used to be in. You know, I used to get to dictate everything.
Amber: Yeah. So what are some of your like, almost like quick tips for like communicating with adultish children?
Allie: Yeah. So I always tell my clients or whoever's asking, like, if you can have that conversation before they leave the house, that's ideal, because then you're face to face. It can be kind of a two way street and you're, you know, this is what I'm thinking, you know, and make a plan. So if your plan is at the very least, we'll touch base at 5 p.m. on Sundays. Have a plan. That's great.
And absolutely know that that plan is going to go out the window once they get to university, because happening at 5 o'clock on Sundays. Like, but you started the process and you have an intention that you're going to connect once a week. So I think that's important. But being flexible and knowing that their lack of communication does not mean like a lack of love for you.
Amber: Say it again. Yeah.
Allie: Yeah. Lack of communication does not mean lack of love.
Amber: So good.
Allie: Yeah. You have to remember if you went to university or when you were first out of the house, everything was new. My gosh, think about it. Your roommate, your bed, your school, the food, like where are you showering? Everything's new and everything's not great. Some things are really good and some things are not so good, but everything's new. So they've got so much on their plate and you're, yes, things are new. Your child or children are out of the house, but everything else is the same for you. It's big. It's really big.
Amber: That's so true. I think that's a big one, you know, and we don't want to make it about us, but sometimes we do. I think what you said about the shame washing over you for a minute, just like kudos to you because like you moved through that pretty quick, right? Because sometimes the shame washes over and we get defensive or we want to explain ourselves and that just like causes more disruption in the communication.
So maybe like talk about that because that's a skill. I know you've done a lot of work for people who are learning that skill of like, I feel shame or like, you know, whatever is coming up. How do you move through it so you can get back into that two-way communication?
Allie: I mean, and if I'm telling the truth, like I'm sure it was more than a minute.
Amber: Yeah, you moved through it.
Allie: I moved through it and I think I have learned that allowing the negative emotions, just allowing them, whether it's shame or guilt or anger, whatever we think are negative emotions, if I allow them, it works much better because if I don't, if there's that resistance and if there's the emotion that comes up that we have zero, I don't think we have any control over. It's just an impulse. It comes up and then there's a thought on top of it. That's usually a judgment or something.
If I can stick with the emotion of just keep with shame and go, oh, that's so embarrassing. I really wish I wasn't feeling that. And then I can pause. I use the pause a lot. The pause for me is the pause and the breath and the choosing. If I could feel something next, what's the next best emotion? It doesn't go from shame to happiness. Shame to joy. A few intermittent steps. But I think it's the process of allowing that. I think for me, what I've said to my clients is reach for the next best thing, like compassion, a little bit of empathy.
I think grace, I keep like a blankie in my purse, in my bag, and I just pull it out and say, I love whether it's grace or permission slips, those two concepts of giving myself some grace, I think of that as a warm blanket and a permission slip is the way I visualize it. I kind of think of God handing out this like permission slip to say, yeah, Allie, wow, you're really human there. Welcome to being human. It's okay.
Amber: Yeah. What I love too about that story, and maybe we could talk about this, is you didn't need to be right. I think you were willing to really just like hear her feedback. It wasn't like you had to defend your position or explain why you should be able to call or text all the time. This is like a micro example, right? But like you are willing to like be wrong for the relationship.
Allie: And that's such a different dynamic than when you're a full-time parent. And I think it's still very important. I remember apologizing to my daughter the first time. I can't remember because she was so little. Oh, I think it was, can we go to the zoo today? And I had said, yes. And then we couldn't go to the zoo and she was upset. And I sat her down and I said, you know what?
Mommy did not plan the day right or this unexpected thing came in. And I want to apologize because I know that was a promise I made to you. I don't want to make promises and then take them away, but I do want to teach you that I will always do my best. I always have the best intentions. Sometimes things don't work out, but this was something where this was not a good planning on my part. So I apologize.
And I remember never once hearing that from my parents thinking, I was thinking when I did it, it felt like the right thing to do. It felt natural in that that's the kind of parent I want to be. But I was worried that am I undermining my authority? I'm a parent who apologizes. And boy, did I find out that was completely the opposite happened. I built trust and integrity in that relationship.
Amber: Amazing. It's not an undermining of your authority or that you lose even like power or control. The word that I love, you know, is co-creation. It feels like you're willing to co-create with your child or children in a way that serves you both.
Allie: Yeah. And I think that that when we can think of parenting as co-creating, that's empowering for both of us. All of us as a family unit, instead of maybe how we were taught, certainly how I was taught. It was from the top down.
Amber: Totally.
Allie: Do what I say to do because I said to do it. You know, no questioning. But you have to be willing that you're raising your children with that two way street communication, which I think is going to serve them later. But you know, it's going to be a dialogue now.
Amber: Yeah. There's different problems because now I feel like even just like our generation is so different with the amount of information and words that we have. I feel like young adults want different things. Like they know that there's a different way of asking what they need and calling you out. And so it is two way and it's not always easy, but it's like being willing to stay in the dialogue, I think is what's so beautiful.
Allie: Yeah. And that willingness is so long term. It's thinking long term, like how it's going to serve you both in the long run. Like my daughter is out of the house. She's engaged, you know, be married, probably have children. And I want that two way street communication. I want to know when I'm overstepping. I think we've got that down, but she will say that in two seconds.
Amber: She's safe to say that.
Allie: Exactly. And I'm safe to say the hard things too.
Amber: Yeah. Maybe because you said she left home seven years ago.
Allie: Yeah, I think that’s right. Wait, maybe longer. She was 18. She's 26. What is it? Ten or eight.
Amber: Yeah. Or almost eight or nine.
Allie: Yeah.
Amber: So, you know, what have you learned? She's engaged. She went through college. I think that she started business. Did I see that? Okay, that's so amazing. So, yeah, I love following you guys on social media, too, because I feel like it's real. Like your relationship with your daughter is so cool. How do you keep the two way communication going as her life evolves, as her priorities change, too? You know, now she's engaged to be married.
Allie: I know. So huge. I think that you're laying the groundwork ahead of. Listen, if they're still in the nest, lay it then.
Amber: Yeah.
Allie: The best to lay it then. And I won't say that I did that entirely. I was much more of a, you know, I think I said, here are the rules. Follow them. That kind of thing. But, you know, she's also the one just going back to her senior year of high school. We always were kind of the hub. It was nice to have an only child because everybody wanted to come over.
Amber: Your house was the house.
Allie: It was not like, you know, naughty or serving beverages or being lenient or something. I was always available. I think that was it. I was always, okay, girls, what's going on? So when you've done that from the time they're in elementary to high school, I had a certain routine and I just didn't deviate much. And one of them was, okay, girls, here's the basket.
Cell phones in the basket. It looks at me. Seventeen is like, Mom, okay, we need to talk, shall we? I'm like, okay, what do you do now? And she said, I'm about to go to university where there are no rules, no bedtimes, there's no governing. It's like I will have complete independence and freedom. How about we start practicing letting me figure out my use of cell phone now? I'm like, oh, gosh, such a good point. Like, it's so crazy that when you're in it, you can't see it.
I was so like, oh, yes. okay. And I still had the thoughts like, okay, you girls aren't going to sleep tonight. You're going to be grumpy in the morning. I had that thought, but I also allowed for, okay, fine. Let them let them be tired. Let them. I mean, what were they doing? Were they on TikTok? I don't know what they were doing with their phones all night long, but just let them because this is good practice.
Amber: So good. You can just tell you did lay the groundwork because she could say that. I see this theme like you learned how to make space for her to ask and to say things on her side of the dialogue.
Allie: And they didn't always like I want to say they didn't always go her way. She wasn't always getting. Because we were so close and I don't think any of her friends follow me, so I can say this. She would tell me everything like everything, everything, things that a mom doesn't need to know about herself, about her friends, about the guys, the girls.
And so one night I remember she came to me and she goes, okay, so everybody's sneaking out tonight and we're going to spend the night at Joel's house. Can I go? I'm like, no. She goes, but I told you I'm not sneaking. I'm like, you couldn't have snuck. No, I'm around. I check your bed like there was going to be no sneaking. She goes, but you got points for like telling you in advance. I go, points for you. You can't go.
Amber: And you can't go.
Allie: And you can't go. And I was grappling with, do I call the friend's mom? And I was like, oh, like this isn't an emergency. Like these girls are 17. Like, no. If they were 12, yes. Oh, there were so many. So many things that I had the information. I'm like, oh, gosh, what do I do? But I had a friend say to me, the thing you always have to remember, the most important thing is your trust with your child.
And if you break that, if a child was in danger, of course, break it. But if it's just information and it's just something where I can go, okay, I'm not willing to risk completely severing my trust with my daughter to inform a parent of something that their child is or is not doing, you know. But boy, was that hard for me I'm an over-shearer.
Amber: Keep it in. Keep it in.
Allie: Yeah. And it can come back to bite you. Like, there were times where I did hold things in and then parents found out things. And then I would confess that I knew. Like, why didn't you say? And I'm like, because it's your child.
And I felt like you should know what was going on with your child in this thing. And it was actually permitted, like in this behavior was permitted in your house. The shock was, which they didn't know, is I didn't allow my daughter to go to that house anymore because of the behavior that was happening. It was kind of like, I have no regrets on that one.
Amber: Powerful.
Allie: Yeah. No regrets, but still say that that was an easy one.
Amber: Yeah. Well, I love that that's, I think what you do in the world now as you're coaching and teaching and mentoring helps people make that call for themselves, because there's so much discernment required to parent. Like, you have to know yourself, you have to know your kid, you have to know your kid's friends to make the call.
Allie: Yeah. That's it. And only you know what's right for you and your child. There's a lot of noise, as you know.
Amber: Yeah, there really is. I think where I'd like to go now is how do you pour into yourself? I think especially, you know, raising children, pouring out becomes so normal. I think especially in the older generations. Right. I think they just wasn't taught, like it wasn't taught how to take care of yourself and how to have a fulfilling life of your own. So how do you pour into yourself and how do you help other people learn to do that? I mean, the watercolor was a great example, but…
Allie: Yeah, no, I will. I want to recognize you, Amber, because I think that you do a beautiful job of that. I follow you. I see how you are with your children and you have your business. And I think that you're a really good example for that of in the world. And, you know, when I think of how do I do it for myself or how I would advise a client on it, it's baby steps. When somebody comes to me, for example, and they say, okay, I don't know what to do now…
Amber: I literally don't know who I am now.
Allie: Identity loss that they show up with that I certainly had as well. And I go big and then I go little. So I say, okay, if I wave the magic wand and I say if the time and money and people's opinions and all of that were not an option, what would you want to do, be, see or any of that? Never do they go, oh, my gosh, I wanted to go to Asia or I wanted to write a book.
Usually it's deer in the headlights and they look almost like frozen, paralyzed. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. That's the normal response I get. Let's go smaller. Let's think about who you were before you had kids. Let's think about. So if I take myself for an example and I take the Allie before gym and before kids, who was it? And then I think about I used to love to write.
I love tennis. I love my friends. I love to travel. And then I try those things on as, you know, the shirt metaphor. I try those on as like, do those fit now by a tennis player now? Well, it turns out I'm pickleball. You know, do I like to travel? Yes, but a little bit nicer travel. Like I'm not not a camper anymore.
Amber: Right. Yeah. Resources for better places.
Allie: Yeah. And then so we do that with my client. And then for them, I ask them those questions. But we even get even more simplistic. And I'll ask them, OK, are you a tea or a coffee drinker? Are you a shower or a bath person? Are you a morning person or a night owl? And their default thoughts right away are usually what they did when they had the kids at home.
And it was all for efficiency. Well, of course, I'm a quick shower person. Of course, I have to be a morning person. It's those things that they did by default because that's what they had to do and talk about like, okay, tomorrow, why don't you just see what would happen if you slept in?
What would happen if you went to bed at 10 o'clock at night? What would happen if you poured yourself the most luxurious bubble bath with lavender and a book and a candle and some music? How would that feel? We walked through that process. You know, we talk about little things like that and then big things.
Amber: Yeah.
Allie: So that's the beginning.
Amber: It's conscious choice, which is different when you're not defaulting to something or someone else's schedule or just like physical demands of raising kids.
Allie: Yeah. I love the process of dreaming and that to me is always the beginning. And still, yes, I have my magic wand and I help my client along with that process. But if we can stop being so scared of the blank page, I like to think of kind of lives in terms of books. And maybe as one chapter closes with the kids at home and the 24-7 parenting, another chapter opens and that blank page is often really super intimidating and scary.
And as a writer, I can tell you it is, too. But if you just start putting some things on the page, whether it's like things that you know for sure, like I love flowers, I love peppermint tea, things that you know that you still know about yourself, it's really getting to know who you are now. And then we can go from there, but you need a starting place.
Amber: Yeah, I think the same is true. You kind of mentioned this in the book, too, about getting to know your partner.
Allie: Oh, yes.
Amber: They've been like, too, because they've changed just like you have. So it's like all new and old at the same time. You're getting to know yourself and your old self and your current self. And you're getting to know your partner who you've known for a long time, but also they're different.
Allie: Yeah, they're different and you're different with them. And kids are re-choosing. I mean, I'm very blunt with my family. And I said to, you know, Jim and Izzy right when she went to college and I was kind of deep into the life coaching. And I'm like, guys, I probably said this at Thanksgiving or something. I'm going to have to re-choose you. What? And I said, this is just a given.
Amber: Yeah.
Allie: Like we co-created this together and this is fine and it's great. And we up to this point, this is where things are. But I'm not that mom or that wife that I was 20 years ago. And I want to make sure that this still works for me personally. And to say that was so outlandish to them. And I mean, for sure confronting, but almost like who is this woman?
And I was teaching them a new way. Like, listen, we have choices, guys. Like by Christmas, I'd chosen them again. But it was one of those things where I was like, I'm in a process of really weighing not all the options. And it was just, I don't know if I'm explaining it right, but co-creating with such intention and consciousness that hadn't necessarily put in before.
Amber: And what's interesting is everyone has to do that. But a lot of people won't say it as blunt as you. So it just buzzes in the background. They're not consciously choosing, but they're also not un-choosing. So it's just like a buzz. Like, is this what I want? Is this who I want to do life with? Who do I want to be? Is this the life that I want? And it just buzzes. It's like either quiet resentment that builds or like a hum of dissatisfaction or I'm sure there's other words, but you got to confront it. You got to bring it to the surface.
Allie: And I do better with saying things out loud. I mean, there was probably a better way to say it, like a more loving and kind way to say it, but they're used to me now or they're used to this version of me now. The pendulum swung. I was like ultra soft and nice and accommodating. Now there's the boundary of me where it was like practicing no all the time. No, do you want to?
No, no. And then I had to come back and then say, okay, well, maybe, or no, it's a, let me think about that. That's really interesting, you know, tell me more and listen with openness, but then I'll say, yeah, let me think. I put the pause in that pause is ever ready. I'll think about it. And then I come back and then I think it's so interesting. I think my husband's biggest complaint, maybe a complaint was when before the years from zero to 20 with Izzy.
I would change my mind after we'd already made the decisions, but I wouldn't know how I felt until we've committed, whether it was a trip or usually those were the only things that I would, like, you know, it'd be really difficult because I would make commitments and things, and then they would come up and I'd be like, actually, I don't want to sail around the world with that family that we've only had dinner with once. Ew. But in the moment I was so accommodating that I would get myself in a situation.
Amber: Now we're sailing across the seas with these people we don't know.
Allie: What universe did that ever sound good?
Amber: When you were sitting at dinner with them, it sounded good.
Allie: Yeah. And I'm saying, oh, my God, it's real fun. Okay, no, no, I don't do that. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm usually going, no.
Amber: You're getting to know yourself and what you really wanted.
Allie: And now that big pronouncement of a, hey, guys, this is what's going on, or this is what I'm thinking is a lot easier for them to then have their say than they can. Hey, well, this is what I'm thinking versus we've already committed, we've already planned, we've already paid, you know, and then the unraveling and the undoing, that's not fun for anybody.
Amber: Yes. I think that's a theme to, I think, getting to know what you really want and what you're really thinking about stuff. You have to learn that because I think as a mother, we get so good at reading everyone else's and what they want. And we start anticipating what they want to hear from us.
Allie: Yes.
Amber: So when you start being like, actually, like, this is what I think, and I know it's not what you think. It's like a rearranging of how we communicate and how we're all friends with each other.
Allie: Yeah. You know, when you say rearranging, it reminds me also of when Jim and I first got back to the house and we were having dinner without Izzy. And the way we do it is we have dinner at the island. We have like a larger table behind us. But when it's just the three of us, we're on an island, it always went Jim, Izzy in the middle, then me.
And I put out the placements and dinner was ready. And we sat. There was this giant space between us. And I'm just looking at this space and I'm kind of sad. And Jim's like, scoot closer. So I scooted a little closer and he scooted closer. And we kind of met in the middle. And I feel like that was such a great metaphor that just so reminded me of exactly what we're talking about. There's a rearrangement.
Amber: Yeah. Physically and mentally and emotionally and spiritually and all of it.
Allie: All the ways. And recognizing that that interim period, those beginning months and even years, things will just keep coming up and you have to be willing to look at that. Like, does that space in between work for us anymore? No. Let's try a little closer. Try new things.
Amber: So good. Yeah. So do you think that most of the women who come to either learn from you, coach with you, read your book, are they the beginning of phases?
Allie: Yeah.
Amber: Well, how do they kind of get through? Because I feel like it's like you're still rearranging, maybe less intensely, but like, life keeps evolving.
Allie: It does. Lately, I've had clients who are less in the kids who have just gone off to university and more, they're more like me. They're more years and years in and they've done things, but they haven't done things that are filling their soul and they feel a calling and they want to do more. And I'm thinking of one of my clients, I'll call her just because.
Amber: Yeah. Anonymous.
Allie: Yeah. Anonymous. You know, Sarah would say, you know, I know that I'm meant for more and she really is meant for more. Like this is a woman who has such mad math skills. I can't even say the word because when I see numbers, remember how we were like trying to add something up a couple of months ago?
Amber: Yeah. How many years she's been out of your house? We're like seven, eight.
Allie: I actually had somebody tell me that I actually have like math phobia where my brain just goes and it's offline. But this woman, Sarah, is an incredible mathematician. She also tutors in math. Plus she is a culinary genius. One of her children, her son, older son, presented with some really like life threatening illnesses, which she cured through nutrition.
And she did it alone. It was incredible. And she has this desire to combine her math and culinary things together. And, you know, we've been working together and co-creating things and she is just like, well, you won't know her from this, but you will from this woman at some point because she's leaning into two huge passions of hers.
She's identified them and she's kept them separate, you know, up to now, but she's willing to combine them. And I think that's part of the process. And I have more and more women like that are coming to me who are saying, I've got some skills or I know what I'm interested in. I just don't know how to get there. What can we do?
Amber: Yeah, I love that. I don't know if you've read the book, The Art of the Impossible by Stephen Kotler, but he talks about this idea of blending our curiosities, right? Like that we follow different curiosities and they might not seem related, but sometimes our life's work, we stumble on them and it's often like a combination, right? It's like, I love that story so much. It's like cooking and math. How do they cure diseases? Whoa. Like, wow.
Allie: No, but you're so right, Amber. It's being able to look back at our lives and like connecting the dots backwards. For example, I was a journalist. So what do journalists do? We're really curious and we ask questions for a living and we write.
Amber: And here you are writing and asking questions.
Allie: So it makes sense. And yet 2017, I did not know that this was going to be my path. So it's really fun. It can be really fun. I think when we also get used to sitting in the uncertainty, you get more comfortable with the uncomfortable.
Amber: Yeah, I think that's so true for all. We get comfortable in a phase of life just as it changes, you know, and you have to get comfortable in the uncertainty.
Allie: Yeah.
Amber: It's the possibilities.
Allie: Like when you're raising your child, remember when you got potty training down, even in the diaper phase and you're like, okay, or you got their sleep schedule down and you're like, okay, we're a two-nap family. We do 10 and we do one. And then just as you've organized your day and your week and your month and your year. And then we laugh.
Amber: That's so true. Yeah. Or like we got school pickup and then you add extra activities or it's like the cliche that's true, which is like the only thing constant is change.
Allie: True, true. And if we can kind of get a little sense of humor about that and just be a little bit more flexible, which yeah, it'll just serve us because nothing is going to stay the same.
Amber: Yeah. I think that's why I love your book too. I feel like it's like a perfect blend of humor with some just profound wisdom, all beautifully wrapped. So I think that's your gift for sure. And writing and speaking and coaching. So is there anything that you would share as we're wrapping up with someone who's maybe in the thick of it, who's like, I don't really know. What are your parting words for someone who's in it?
Allie: I think I would say my favorite things. Take a breath. Take a pause. Know that just as we've been talking, this uncertainty and this feeling of, oh my gosh, I don't know what to do right now. That too is going to pass. So if you can find the kernels, I always try to, no matter what phase I'm in, look for the kernels of gratitude. What can you be grateful for right now?
I think it was Martha Back or somebody who said that fear and gratitude can't exist at the same time. I don't know if they can or if they can't, but I do know that even when you're in a very uncertain time of life, you can be grateful that you are still breathing. You can be grateful that hopefully your kids are healthy. You can find those things and make practice. I love writing those things out nightly. Just doesn't have to be big, scrap piece of paper or journal, but write them down. Yeah.
Amber: I think sometimes when you're talking about the magic wand and the big stuff, I think we do that with negative stuff too. We think so big and it's overwhelming. And it's like, let's come back to this moment. Let's breathe.
Allie: Yeah. It can change everything. It can change everything. You know, you remind me of, I used to use this with Izzy. It was before life coaching. So I think I came up with this concept, but my daughter would come home with, and she was like in middle school with one problem and say it was, I didn't do well on my math test. And I go, oh, okay. Well, let's look what you did.
And it would be Susie hates me. And I didn't get invited to the party anyway. And I would be like, okay, we started with one snowflake and now it's snowballing and it's going and it's going and it's going. And I would say, okay, let's smash the snowflake. Let's take it apart and let's figure out like what's real. Let's start with that one thing, the test, and let's take it apart.
And let's everything doesn't have to snowball because it doesn't have to be that big. They were all individual snowflakes, you know, and they were actually for things, snowflakes are so beautiful in and of themselves, but then if they were like little negative things, but then when they snowballed, that's so big, but it's probably really not that big. Go back original one. And let's find some gratitude to like, yay, you did the test. You showed up, you did your best.
Amber: So good. Our brains can't see that though.
Allie: Yeah, we need reminders. I don't know. I think my brain is just on metaphor, metaphor, metaphor today, but we have to remind ourselves to look for the positive things too.
Amber: Yep. And the more you do it, the more you train your brain kind of like what we talked about. It's a new training of your brain to see things differently.
Allie: Yeah.
Amber: It's one of my favorite quotes says the shift in perception is a miracle.
Allie: Oh, I do love that.
Amber: Yeah. When we shift our perception of something, there's like a little miracle that we see it differently.
Allie: Did you pick that up? That's so good.
Amber: Yeah. I wish I made it up. I should.
Allie: I don't know. Amber Smith said it's today.
Amber: I mean, I think that's your book is full of them. I think coaching is full of them. So thank you for offering all of the amazing wisdom that you did. How can people best work with you? I know you have a few different ways, but tell us.
Allie: So if they're readers, oh, and soon to be that audio book is soon to be out.
Amber: Is there going to be an audio book?
Allie: I recorded it ages ago and it just wasn't ready. It just wasn't time. So coming out probably the end of this month. So if you like that. So the girlfriend's got it.
Amber: And it's in your voice.
Allie: Yes. And it's in my voice.
Amber: It bugs me when audio books are not the author. It's like, no, I want to connect to the author.
Allie: You know, I was so surprised when they asked me, are you going to read it? And I'm like, who else? Of course.
Amber: But you can hire people to read your audio book. So.
Allie: Yes. I know. Thank you. So it is my voice. So regular book or I'm going to have some new offerings coming later. But I think that look at my website. My Instagram is full of Allie Hill Coaching. It's just full of seven years of wisdom on this stuff. You can always DM me. I'm very accessible. I answer people all the time on things that are coming up for them. Happy to do that.Makes me feel connected to you.
Amber: So I love it. You're amazing. I think we'll have to ask you about the offers that are secretly coming. But thank you. Thank you so much for your time and your heart.
Allie: Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to be here, Amber. Thank you.
Amber: Thank you.
