Hey, you guys, welcome back to the podcast. I'm especially excited to share an interview I did with my friend and colleague, Jennie Lakenan. Many of you know her. She is a web designer for life coaches and, fun fact, me and Jennie actually went to college together. And so we've known each other for a long time, and it's been so fun to kind of have these parallel journeys as entrepreneurs.
And she's amazing and has so much insights and wisdom to share about building an online presence about your website about tech stuff. And so I think you're going to love our interview. I also am including a lot of her resources in the show notes for you, because she just has incredible value to add.
And so if you don't know Jennie, I'm very excited to introduce you to her. If you do know Jennie, you know you're going to love this episode. We're talking about five mistakes that people make on their website and how to resolve them. Among other things in our conversation, she just drops so many golden nuggets. So without further ado, welcome to my interview with Jennie Lakenan.
Amber: Okay. Welcome Jennie to the Conscious Coach Podcast. I'm so glad you're here.
Jennie: Thanks for having me.
Amber: So fun fact, you guys, me and Jennie went to college together, studying psychology back in the day, and Jennie was my RA in college, which is so cool. So we go way back.
Jennie: We do. It's fun.
Amber: I'm so excited. So we're going to talk about a lot of things, but we're going to start with website fixes for coaches because Jennie is a wizard at so many things, but I would love to hear just, how would you describe what you do for people who may not know you?
Jennie: Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I'm a web designer which is totally not a good pitch, but it's just the truth. Yes, I'm a web designer. I'm also a certified coach, but I don't have a coaching practice separate from my web design business because I have just found that my why is always to get as much coaching as possible out into the world. And I have just found that I can do that more effectively by helping coaches with their websites, than I can just by being a coach, myself. It's just super fun, and I really like everything about web design and having a web design business.
Amber: And you kind of coach your clients through some decisions and drama.
Jennie: I do. I do. Like having those skills has been so critical. Actually, in the beginning of my business, I thought oh, well, I don't need to get certified as a coach.
Cause like, I know I'm going to just do web design and I really love it. And then I had enough clients come to me with niche drama and copy drama and all the things that come up as you're like creating content for a website. And I just realized like, oh no, I need to have all these skills so that I can, I think the biggest skill is just being able to hold space for my clients so that whatever is coming up for them, I'm not making it mean things about me and about my offer, my skills or the design I've created for them. Cause most of the time, it's not really about that. It's about what's going on for them.
Amber: So good.
Jennie: Yeah.
Amber: And you've got people kind of across the spectrum of successful coaches. I mean, you have clients who are doing millions of dollars, but you've also helped coaches kind of like, before they have any clients, and they get a website.
Jennie: Yeah, for sure. I'd say most of my clients at this point are a little more established. Like they've got the marketing thing down. They've got the launching thing down or however, it is that they're marketing. But their online presence just is not representing the maturity of their business.
That is kind of where they come to me from. They're like I'm a good coach and I can sell, but my website is clunky. My team struggles to update it. It looks awful, you know. It's not representing me well, and like, the quality of my programs and coaching and everything. And that's like really the sweet spot because I can do amazing work for them, and they can get an amazing ROI on their investment.
But I do definitely work with coaches that are just starting out, especially if they're already an entrepreneur, kind of like in some other capacity, or they're like a really career executive that's like their time is really scarce, and they don't want to DIY, and they want to have a really robust foundation of their online presence. That would be another good fit.
Amber: And you have a course. That's what I was thinking like you also educate.
Jennie: Yes.
Amber: They don't pay you to do it yourself, for Jennie to actually come and do the work. You also teach people.
Jennie: Exactly, yes. You're helping me. You're like, don't Jennie. Tell them about all the ways you can help them. Yes. So what I was talking about earlier was more of my like done for you, you know, website work. But if you are just getting started and you don't have a website yet, and you just need something quick and simple that you can get up in like a weekend, so you can actually start marketing your business and you can feel more confident in yourself as a coach.
Like, oh, I have an online presence and it looks really good, and I can start sending people there when I meet them. And they're like, oh this sounds interesting, what's your website? You know, and you have a place to send them. I do have a course it's called Website Kit for Coaches and it teaches you how to set it up on a weekend basically.
Amber: Amazing. I just want to make sure that everyone knew you had lots of ways. You support coaches in, I meant like, the whole spectrum, like you really do. And so we're going to talk about today, folks, is the five mistakes that people make on their website.
Jennie: Yes.
Amber: So take us away, Jennie. Let's talk about it.
Jennie: Yeah. So really the way that I describe it is like here are five simple fixes that any coach can make on their website and help it be more effective at actually getting clients, getting subscribers, being a tool for you and your business. I created kind of this concept of these five fixes because I mean, I've audited and consulted on hundreds of websites at this point. And I've just seen that there are some really consistent things that most coaches aren't doing, and a lot of them are really simple. Should we just dive in?
Amber: Let's dive in. Go, jump in.
Jennie: Okay. The first really simple fix that you can make is to use, it's what I call the Hero Formula on your website, especially on your homepage. But really this applies to any page on your site. The Hero Formula is basically just taking the top section of your website and making sure that it has three things. It has a headline that tells them what you do in a very concise way. It has a sentence or two of subtext that kind of expounds on that a little bit more.
And then it has a button. Those three things. Yeah. If you visit Apple, if you visit StoryBrand, if you visit Google, like you'll notice that they all use this. If those companies that have tons of huge research budgets use that formula, it tells me that they use it because it works, and it's such a simple fix. It's such a small thing to change.
Amber: What would you tell people, because I love that you understand coaching too, because sometimes people get stuck here. How do they just decide what to write on their headline? You know what I mean? People have drama.
Jennie: It's a good question. I always like to go back to listening to my client's words. Don't make it so hard. Because ultimately using their words is going to help it appeal to them more. So take notes when you do sales calls and take notes when people leave comments on your social posts or wherever it is that you're engaging with your people.
Whenever someone says something that's really like, oh that captures the essence of what I do better than I could say it. Use that for headlines.
Amber: So good. It's almost so easy that people overlook it, but it's like, you just use the words that your clients are asking you about. It's almost like, just reverse it. Like, they're asking me about this, that's what I saw for in your headlight.
Jennie: Exactly.
Amber: For the button, I know we're going to get technical, but I think it might be useful because I feel like a lot of people in my audience are in this phase where it's like, oh I actually want a website that represents me well. Can you give like best practices for the button? Is that too granular?
Jennie: Like what it should say?
Amber: Yes, what do you think that they should have it say?
Jennie: I’m a fan of keeping it really simple and also very straightforward. So if the call to action is to schedule a call, say schedule now, or schedule call, or schedule here.
Amber: Not expand your mind or like, take your life to the next level.
Jennie: I mean, people will do that and their pages will convert, but that's just what I prefer to do is to keep it really straightforward. And if it's like to opt in or subscribe to something, then I always just do like, send me the guide or download the guide or access the course or something like that.
Amber: So good. Okay. Hero formula, number one.
Jennie: Yeah, that’s the first one. Use the hero formula. The second simple fix is, this is like a fairly simple thing to do, really it's to say thank you. And by saying thank you, I mean when someone opts in on your website to your email list or when they submit your contact form or anything like that, you need to have a thank you page.
Again, if you're listening to this, you're probably like, yeah, yeah I know what that is, but are you doing it? Like, because after someone, especially if they're opting into your email list, they've just said yes to something. They're never more likely psychologically to say yes again than in that moment when they've already just said yes.
So your thank you page is a really great spot to tell them what to expect next. Like, hey I'm sending you an email that has the guide in it, go download, you know, make sure you see it. Send me an email if you don't. It's a great place to put a video.
Even if the thing you're sending them that they opted in for is a PDF or something like that. I still think a video on the thank you page is a really great touch point because video is such a powerful medium for building trust with people.
Having a little video that just intros who you are and explains why you created this freebie and maybe give them a little nugget from it to like, leave them wanting more. And call to action to schedule a call or whatever the next step is in your sales process. I think that's what you were going to say, right?
Amber: Yes. It's so good, but you're right. Cause it is like they already raised their hand, and they're like I'm interested in whatever you are offering. It's like one more reminder. Book a call. This is what I do for a living is talk to people.
Jennie: Exactly, and then have a button below that video that says schedule here.
Amber: Perfect.
Jennie: Again, it's a really simple thing, but I find that people work so, so, so hard to get people to their website or to their opt-in page, but then they don't make the thank you page really powerful. And so having a thank you page at all is a step above.
Amber: Like you said, it's simple, but are you doing it? Do you actually have one? I'm like thinking through all my pages. Cause I know I have thank you pages on a lot of them. I'm like, do I have them on every single one? I'm going to go check.
Jennie: For sure. And it's interesting to see the different variations of thank you page effectiveness, like if we're going to get more in the weeds here, we could probably stop this conversation there and move on to number three, but I think this is just interesting to examine.
I've created thank you pages for all of my freebies as I've created them, but I just started working with the Facebook ads specialist a couple months ago and started running Facebook ads for the first time. I think it's really interesting. Like she's really encouraging me to make that thank you page even more robust and not just have a video and a little bit of a blurb and the schedule button is sort of like the first iteration of a great thank you page.
But she's encouraging me, like take it a step up a notch, have the video be more of a sales letter not just a little intro, but really use it as a sales conversation and then have more of a longer form sales page below it that sells them on booking that call. I think it makes sense for me to do because I am running ads, and I'm doing paid traffic and we're trying to increase the conversion rates. But anyway, it's just interesting to see the different variations and how you can grow your thank you pages as your business grows and have them work even harder.
Amber: And, like anything, there's infinite levels. So if you're listening to this and you're like, I already do this, you're missing what we're trying to offer. There's another level that you can opt.
I think the word optimize is so perfect for this conversations. Cause it's like, you might be doing it, but are you doing it at a level 10? Are you doing it at a level one? Because there's different ways you can, like what Jennie just shared, make it longer, add more of a sales-type video. Like there's different ways you can optimize.
Jennie: Exactly. Testimonials and all the things.
Amber: Yeah, so good.
Jennie: So that's the second thing is to say thank you on your website after your opt-in pages. The third simple fix is to be consistent. Oftentimes we hear consistency referring to being consistent in the content that you publish on your website, on your podcast, or on your social media or whatever. And that is important.
Amber: You mean like frequency?
Jennie: Yeah, that's often what people are referring to. Consistency.
Amber: Post every day. Email every week or whatever.
Jennie: Exactly. But I'm talking about consistency from a design perspective.
Amber: Yes.
Jennie: Because consistency on your website looks like being very intentional about those design details. So things like how you use colors, and you're spacing things, and what fonts you're using. Because I don't know if you've ever visited a website, and they're using three different headline fonts throughout the same page, or they're using one set of colors on one page and then a totally different set of colors on another page, or the buttons are mismatched.
And maybe as a nondesigner, you maybe don't notice those things unless someone points them out to you. But I can promise you that from like just a potential client consumer standpoint, those things are influencing how you see the business.
Amber: Totally. We talked about this when we were together, like people have high standards now, especially for web design and online presence. I was looking at Steve Chandler's website. You know Steve Chandler?
Jennie: I think just from you.
Amber: He's like an OG coach. I love him and his website is awful, but how he built his business was pre-internet. I'm like you can't get away with that if you're starting your business in this era, you know what I mean?
You have to have a decent web presence because that's how we kind of base our decisions off of it. Like we go and look to check, are you who you say you are? Like, does it match? So I think it does matter. Even if you're not design-minded, these little tweaks can make a huge difference.
Jennie: Exactly. Which for you as someone that's making edits to your website, that looks like using the same font and the same sizing for all of your headlines. It looks like using the same font for all of your body copy. It looks like using the same color and sharpness of corners and all of that for your buttons.
It's not actually that hard to do. Most people just aren't paying attention to those kinds of details, if they're DIYing their website or even if they're working with a designer. They just may not pay attention to those things. I love that you pointed out earlier that like we judge businesses based on what their online presence looks like, because that isn't just hearsay, like there is research that backs that up.
The salesforce did a survey within the last few years that showed that 85 percent of people do research online before buying and 74 percent of those people look at the brand's website before they buy. Design is a little thing that makes a big difference.
Amber: And too, the thing that I think is useful for coaches specifically, because it is like a human-to-human interaction that we love, but your clients are like looking at your stuff a long time. I had a client tell me that she watched me for 18 months before she decided to work with me. Is that always true?
No, but it almost is like building a relationship of trust and value, and like you said, consistency, credibility, all these things that you can almost replicate online. And it looks like design that is the application of those things.
Jennie: Yeah, it doesn't really matter so much what fonts you use and what colors. Maybe it does a little bit from a psychology standpoint matter on the colors, but like in general, those things, like your logo, all those things are more about brand recognition than they are about actual visual appeal.
What the beauty of that is that you can create consistency in that by using the same fonts, the same colors, the same logo over a period of time, and that consistency will translate to people as consistency in that you are trustworthy and that they recognize you, which I think is just really interesting.
Amber: It's very interesting. Well, can you imagine like if Nike was changing their branding and their website every week, every month? It would be like, what is happening? We want that like feeling of we're going to be here for a while and we know what we're doing.
Jennie: Exactly. It's just confusing when you aren't consistent. Amazing. Okay. So that's the third simple website fix is to be consistent in your design and your visuals. The fourth simple fix is to include social proof on your website. And I always start this off by telling this little story.
A while back, I went on the hunt to find a new business program to join, like an accelerator. I've been in agency accelerators in the past, and I took a break from them for a little while and then I just kind of found myself craving that community, and sort of like the industry-specific input of other web designers.
And I don't know about you, but like as a potential client, I'm always a little bit skeptical of any unfamiliar coaching business that I come across because this accelerators are coaching businesses too, especially if it's a company that I might hire myself. So, I go to their website and I'm wanting them to prove themselves to me, but what really helps to turn that skepticism into trust, I think for me and for all of us, just psychologically, is when we see other people or other businesses saying good things about the program.
That's what I mean by having social proof on your website helps and that, for a lot of us, it's primarily going to take the form of testimonials from clients who got results working with us. It might take the form of certification badges that are like relevant to your niche, and that your audience is going to know and care about.
It can also take the form of like media features. So if you've guested on podcasts or written blog posts for a, you know, HuffPost or like done some things for other companies that people will recognize, or if there are photos of you from stages that you've presented on, those kinds of media features can also be really, really effective.
Amber: Yeah. So good. We value what other people think. It's just like how we are as humans and even from a business perspective because I'm always, like renewals and referrals are the goal. As you know, I mean, your whole business is amazingly referred because Jennie's amazing, but I think it goes a long way to replicate that online as much as we can do.
It's like this is what so and so said about working with me. Maybe you know so and so, maybe you don't, but it's like someone else can vouch for what I do in the world. I think it's really useful.
Jennie: Exactly, having those testimonials, those certification badges, those media features on your website somewhere. Usually I like to kind of sprinkle, especially the testimonials, I kind of like to sprinkle those throughout, not necessarily have a dedicated page, just because I think people are more likely to see them if they're sprinkled in.
They add so much to your site. So that's the fourth simple website fix. And then the fifth simple website fix that I would recommend, and this one, full disclosure, this one definitely takes more work than the others. It's not as simple as the rest, but it's so important.
So I still mention it and that is to have a way for people to get completely free content on your website. And by completely free, I mean like they don't even have to give you their email. So if you're like Amber and you have a podcast, make sure that you're publishing the show notes on your website and making it clear that people can follow you there and can listen to your podcast.
At the very least, have a button in your menu that takes them to iTunes to see your podcast because some people are not going to be ready to give you their email or schedule that call right away. And we still want to give them a way to be nurtured by you and to see the kind of content that you publish, the kind of help they can get from you on your site.
Amber: I have my podcast. People can just go and listen to it right on the site. And it's not optimal. Like I think iTunes does a great job of making it a great listening experience, but I think it's like look what you're sharing. You don't have to guard everything with an email or like a really big ask.
I don't know what your thoughts are, but I feel like booking a call for people who don't know you, it's a pretty big step. Especially if someone told their friend about you and then they go look up your website like they'd never listened to your podcast. They never looked at your content.
Maybe they'd never heard of coaching before, and now they're looking at your website. Booking calls is like a very big step. I think nurturing them, having a place for them to even like hear your voice or like read the words you write is so useful.
Jennie: Yeah, and definitely podcasting can be quite a project. So, it's not always the best choice when you're first getting started and you're first getting your business off the ground. But having a blog, especially if you're doing any kind of keyword research, even just really basic, super simple kind of keyword research, like blogging is still a medium that is working.
Not only to build trust with people who get referred to your site by someone else, but also from like a Google standpoint. I remember I had a client that she was weight loss coach for women that had PCOS. Without even doing any keyword research, she actually had some pretty good traction on her blog, simply because she was writing posts that women with PCOS who are trying to lose weight, she was writing posts about the kinds of questions they were googling. Like, what kinds of diets work with PCOS? Stuff like that. And so I think that if you like to write and that's an area that you're interested in putting effort, it's still works.
Amber: For sure, and I think what you shared, like blogging is not dead at all because I read blogs all the time and I like it because it's someone who's actively looking for a solution. Like the PCOS example, she's typing in weight loss for people with PCOS. She's like a hot lead. She's looking for solutions. I just think it's a good perspective because I think a lot of people are like social media, I need to be on social media. It's like, that's one place, but if you love writing and you don't necessarily love like the Instagram game, I think blogging is a huge missed opportunity for people.
Jennie: It really is. Yeah and it's definitely a long game, like search engine optimization, SEO, which is really what we're talking about. We're talking about blogging. It is a long-term strategy. You're not going to post something today and someone's going to find it next week and be all over that because it can take several months sometimes to like have Google start to know what your site is about and offer it up in search results to people.
But I mean, it's an amazing long-term strategy that doesn't require ads, doesn't require where the tap is turned on or off. It doesn't require consistent posting on social media. It really is an asset that like, I've published things years ago that still get traffic today because no one else has written anything better yet. And so Google just keeps offering it to people.
Amber: And like a podcast, like I have a podcast, but I know not everyone either wants one, or like you said, that is a more advanced strategy. I think about the mindset of people. I'm like this like I binge stuff. When I find a content creator that I really like, I remember the first time I did this with Rich Litvin, cause he has a blog, like he writes. I like scrolled way back just to see, cause I was like this is great. And so I think that frame of mind, like you're providing clients value now, but also in the future, they will read this blog post as well, like you just shared. You still get traffic to old stuff. It's like the best kind of content when it works now and in the future.
Jennie: Exactly, and then it's like an asset that you can keep using too. Cause most often when I am really excited about writing a blog post, it's because I'm answering a question that I've been asked over and over again. I've literally had on my list for the last month to write a blog post about how to announce a website launch because the last three clients that I built websites for, they asked me on our last, like maybe the last caller to see that we had for the project, they're like what do you suggest that I do to like help get people on this new website and, you know, announce it and stuff?
And I gave them some ideas but then afterwards, I was like I could totally do research on this and get even more ideas and write this amazing blog post. Then the next time anyone asks me this question, I can just be like, oh I've got a blog post about that, and I send it to them. It's just such a win, and then they want to share it the next time one of their friends asks them that. It's just like this amazing ecosystem of help.
Amber: And it sounds like creating a system, which I know you are brilliant at. By writing a blog post, you create a system of like saving time in the future and they can share it with their friends and anyway, it builds on itself. It’s an awesome resource.
Jennie: For sure. So anyway, I mean, I know that that in and of itself is a little more applicable to me because I'm like sort of a service-based business in the sense that I'm providing a deliverable at the end, but I still think that that's relevant for coaches because I'm sure there are questions you get asked over and over again, and you've probably got podcast episodes about those things now. And then if someone emails you asking that question, you can send them there, and it's like another touch point and another nurture point. Yeah. Consistent content.
Amber: And this is the other thing too, you're paying clients also still consume your content. That's been something that I drive home a lot with my clients. I'm like, you have to keep creating amazing content. I know that that can be daunting, but it's also a way to serve the people who are still paying you.
Like I have a podcast episode called “How to Sell Out Free Calls,” and I refer my paying clients to my public podcast. And there's an opt-in, they can go and download this free resource and I get people that opt in for it still. I think of blogging or podcasting or just online presence in general as a compounding return.
So it's worth the time to get your SEO right and like spend time writing the blog post if you have a frequently asked question. It's worth it. It doesn't go nowhere, like it lives and people actually use it.
Jennie: Exactly. So being consistent with that content, you know, you don't have to write a blog post every week, even if it's once a month. It's still a really useful way to give value to people and give them an opportunity to get to know you better because they wouldn't be on your website if they didn't want to get to know you better.
Amber: It's so true. They're looking for you.
Jennie: Yeah. So those are my five simple website fixes to get more clients.
Amber: Give us a quick recap of the five.
Jennie: First use the Hero Formula on your website. Headline, subtext, button is what the Hero Formula is. Say thank you, which really just means have a custom thank you page that people see after they opt-in on your site.
The third one is be consistent, and by consistency, we’re not talking about frequency of content. We're talking about consistency in the design of your site and the fonts and the colors and the design elements. Fourth, use social proof, so have testimonials or certification badges and/or media features on your site so that people can see what other people are saying about your business. Not just what you're saying about your business. And then last, publish valuable, free content of some sort: podcast, blog. Figure out a frequency that works for you and have it on your site.
Amber: So good. Obviously, Jennie you're amazing and you're an amazing resource. Is it okay if I just ask you more of like a mindset-related question to tech stuff?
Jennie: Yes, please.
Amber: I also know that you probably get this a lot with your clients because I feel like anything, there's the thing that we're trying to do and then the thoughts we have about the thing we're trying to do. One of the things that I get a lot is people getting caught in copy. I know it's adjacent to what you do, but like, what are your best mindset hacks or like powerful thoughts or reframes for people who are like, I feel like I don't know how to write about what I do? I'm putting you on the spot. I know we didn't prepare this so.
Jennie: That's okay. I like on-the-spot questions. Okay then I just riff, you know. I mean it sort of depends on why, like what are they getting stuck on exactly. Is it that they don't know who they're talking to yet? Or is it they don't have a niche?
Amber: Let's start with that because I have a few, that's definitely one. They're like, well, I don't know who I'm talking to, or like, I don't know my ideal client or something. I don't believe them because I'm like, you've been in business for three years. You know who you're talking to, but maybe the articulation of what they do for those people.
Jennie: I mean, we could just go back to what we talked about earlier with headlines, like use their words. This relies on you having some engagement with people who kind of fit in your niche. So maybe if you don't have that as a prerequisite, we can talk about that too, but like, you know, just anyone…
Well no, because any niche that you could think of, even general coaching, there are people, friends, and family that you know that fit that persona. And you can just have a conversation with them and use their words. It's not going to be perfect, but copy is never going to be the perfect words.
Amber: Thank you for saying that. I think that that's a misconception that there is a perfect way to say it, and I'm not saying it the perfect way. I think that's like the thought that people have.
Jennie: But there is no perfect way though, because every person is slightly different in the words that they would use to talk about this problem. And so you're really just aiming to get, like maybe 75 percent of the way there to, like, what would resonate with them. Otherwise, you're casting too narrow of an umbrella, and you're only going to talk to literally one person.
Amber: This exact person.
Jennie: Which even that is fine, but like, I think just trying to talk to people who are in your niche that fit that persona and use the words that they use. And that's more of a strategy question, not a thought question, but what you said earlier about there are no perfect words, that is really what it comes down to.
Amber: My other question is kind of like this, but maybe for someone who's more advanced, how often do you recommend people update their website in general?
Jennie: What do you observe with clients? Are they like wanting to update it every week and it's spinning wheels not doing other things?
Amber: So I see, a lot of my clients they know it's time because maybe they like leveled out. Maybe they've added a group program, and so they need to add that to the website, like something more tangible. That's fine.
Like, I think that people know when they're ready for a website. I'm thinking about the person, cause this used to be me and I see this in some of my clients. They will use tweaking their website as like buffering to working on their business.
You can work on your business in the form of working on your website, but like changing a landing page over and over or getting so obsessed with working on the landing page that you never actually send people to your landing page. Does that make sense?
Jennie: Yeah.
Amber: So how often would you say you actually need to update things?
Jennie: Yeah, I mean, I will go like a couple of years without really majorly updating anything on my website.
Amber: A couple years, you guys!
Jennie: I'll like add something or maybe a copywriter friend tells me you should really change that one headline because I think that that one headline would be more powerful said this way. Like I'll make tiny adjustments like that every six months or something like that. But I mean, I try to get a lot of use out of my website and have a really good business reason to overhaul it or really tweak a major page. I really think it comes down to why you're doing it.
If you're doing it in your heart of hearts, you know you're doing it because you're avoiding something else, it can be a little harder or if you're doing it because like, I've talked to coaches who they do edit their website copy more frequently, but they kind of use it as an exercise to like play with different messaging for themselves.
And so it actually is an effective thing for them because it helps them massage their messaging for social media and other places too. So I'm like, okay, I could buy into that I guess, but I tend to just create it and leave it alone for a while. And then you know one day you'll visit your site like a year later and you'll be like, oh no I really don't work with that kind of person anymore. And that's when you know that it's time.
Amber: If something's outdated for sure. So then my follow-up question is how do people know they're ready to work with someone like you? Where they're moving beyond just doing it themselves?
Jennie: That's such a good question. The first major thing to make sure is that you've got a validated offer and message. That's the most important thing.
Amber: Let's break it down.
Jennie: Yes. I'm actually looking this up because I definitely thought about this question and took notes.
Amber: I love your mind.
Jennie: Okay yeah so breaking down, you need to have a validated offer in that you have a defined niche with messaging that's refined enough that you have signed paying clients, like multiple paying clients.
Amber: Yes. Same offer.
Jennie: For the same offer. That's ideally when it really can make sense because to hire someone and pay them thousands of dollars to build a website for you, I think if you want to put up a simple website that's a one-pager and you DIY using a course like mine or whatever, like that's great.
You don't have to wait until you have paying clients to do that. But I do think that if we're going to really make a big investment, then it makes sense to know that like this is an offer that people are willing to pay for, so that you can get a return on your investment.
Amber: In other words, when people ask me, how did you know it was time to invest in getting your website up or whatever? When I saw it as an ROI. Instead of something that I was just trying to get. Like I know I need a website, so here I go. And the ROI really wasn't from my website, it was from my brute force, me having conversations, me emailing, me on social media, me meeting people. When I was ready to see the website was an asset that would produce an ROI for me. That's how I knew. I think you said it in better terms, like I have an offer that the website can sell that offer for me.
Jennie: Make it easier for me to sell that offer.
Amber: Like have a process for people to book consults or whatever.
Jennie: Or if someone's googling my name or my business name, that something comes up besides my Instagram account, which nothing wrong with having an Instagram account be the thing that comes up, that's a great place to start.
But if you're like, ooh, my business is more mature than that. I want to have more of place for people, like a presence. And I would also say that kind of the second piece of that is yes, you want to make sure you've got a validated offer with paying clients so you can get an ROI, but also that's just sort of like the numbers piece of it.
There's also this other piece that's kind of more the confidence and the reputation, which is I think we talked about this earlier, your current presence doesn't match the maturity of your business and the skills that you have as a coach.
And it's hurting you to not change your website and update it and have it look professional because you're losing clients who would potentially sign on, or you're losing partnerships that might be offered.
Amber: Yeah.
Jennie: Which is harder to quantify for sure, like that piece. But it's definitely part of it.
Amber: I always look at kind of the trajectory that I'm on, like I always saw it as inevitable that I would have a website that did work for me, but like among other things. I saw it as inevitable that I would have a podcast. I saw it inevitable that I would do lots of different things in my business.
I think everyone, if you look at the trajectory of your business and where it's headed and where you want it to head, a strong website is a non-negotiable. Like what you shared, where your online presence is outdated compared to - you said it better. It’s like your presence is…
Jennie: Maturity of your business.
Amber: Maturity, yeah. Say it again one more time.
Jennie: Yeah. If your current presence doesn't match the maturity of your business or the skills that you have as a coach.
Amber: Then it's time to update it. I resonate with that a lot. Mic drop. Okay, folks, that's all, see you later. Just kidding. Okay, Jennie, you're amazing. Thank you for sharing all your insights. I really was excited because it's not just technical knowledge that you have. Because like you have a unique perspective of kind of seeing the inner workings of a lot of coaching businesses and how the website affects their success and their launches and collaborations and all these things. So thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience with us.
Jennie: You're so welcome. Thanks for having me. It's so fun to talk to you.
Amber: Yes. Tell everyone where they can find you. I know that you mentioned your course as well, but where can they find out more about what you do and how you can help them?
Jennie: So my website is just my name, jennielackenan.com. I actually have a free resource that I think would be useful for your people.
Amber: I'll link it up.
Jennie: Yeah, link it. It's a testimonial email template. So we talked about really up-leveling the quality of the testimonials on your website, and I very frequently have clients ask me, like, what questions do you ask your clients to get testimonials?
So, I just send them my email template. And I was like, oh well, this could be the same one I used to ask for testimonials. And I was like, oh this could be a really good idea freebie. So I'll send you the link to that and you can look in the show notes. It includes the three questions that I ask my clients to get really good testimonials for websites.
Amber: So in addition to this amazing podcast, you can go look at her website or you can get the freebie because she's amazing. Does it have a thank you page?
Jennie: You know it.
Amber: You can look in real time what it looks like to have an amazing page.
Jennie: What does a good thank you page look like? Yep. A hundred percent.
Amber: Awesome, okay. Thank you, Jennie. You're amazing.
Jennie: Thanks for having me.
