ļ»æHey, you guys. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm really, really excited to share my friend and client from the Matrix, Brooke Meyer with you. She's incredible, and she'll introduce herself when I share the interview with you guys. But I wanted to quickly share my thoughts about Brooke and just introduce you to her from my perspective.
I'm a young working mom and this whole interview is about working moms. And I love Brooke's perspective because she's been a working mom for 12 years before Instagram was a thing. And the reason that I wanted to bring her onto the podcast was because I think as a coach, but also as a woman who's done it, she has embodied wisdom.
And so I was really excited to have a conversation with her about working moms, some of the judgments and expectations that we can drop and all sorts of good things. Good, golden nuggets for you. And so I'm just really excited to share Brooke with you. And so without further ado, welcome to my interview with Brooke Meyer.
Amber: Okay. Welcome to the podcast, Brooke. I'm so happy to have you.
Brooke: Thank you, Amber. I'm thrilled to be here.
Amber: Cue the applause and the ooze and the ahz. Welcome. I already introduced you in the intro, but I'd love to hear your own thoughts and words about your story and your little bio, like what you'd say about yourself.
Brooke: Yeah, so I am a mom of three kids. I have a daughter who just turned 12 actually. And a son who has special needs, he has down syndrome and he's nine years old. And then I have another daughter who's seven. I'm married. And I have worked since I graduated from college back in a long time ago, and I've worked in the financial services industry that whole time, which was not totally my plan.
But here we are now 20 plus years later. And I have worked as a single person, as a married woman, and then as a married mom with kids. So yeah. Lots of experience there.
Amber: Cool. And that's what we're gonna be talking about today. Why I'm so excited. I think I mentioned before we started recording that I mean, I coach a lot of moms, but I think what you have to offer isn't just like coaching tools.
It's also like wisdom and experience, working while being the kind of mom that you wanna be. I'm excited for the listeners to hear all your wise words.
Brooke: My hard one wisdom.
Amber: Your hard one wisdom. Yeah. So I guess we can just start with like, what do you think are the biggest struggles? Let's validate the moms out there. Let's help them feel like we know your pain.
Brooke: Totally.
Amber: But like in your own words, in your own experience, like what do you think the biggest challenges are? When I was first pregnant with my first daughter and I was working, and my husband and I went to start looking at daycares, it was a situation that I never really anticipated for myself.
My mom was a stay-at-home mom and I had a lovely childhood and she did all the things. We went to all these different daycares and I'm like, it's not clean enough or it's not nice enough or, you know, whatever. And I just thought, oh my gosh, like I have screwed this up before my child is even born.
And then flash forward, about six months ago, I was talking to my oldest daughter, who's now almost 12. We were talking about best friends. I don't know how we got on the subject. And I said, well, Sophie, like, who do you think my best friend is? And she didn't even think about it. She looked at me and she said Me.
And I was like, that is excellent. And of course she is one of my very best friends.
Amber: Yeah.
Brooke: And I thought, well, maybe I haven't totally screwed it up. I think working moms often think that there's a better way or a better choice that they should have made that would've made things easier.
I think there's a huge demand on time and I know I have often felt like I was just letting everyone down. Like, I wasn't that good of a mom. I wasn't that good an employee. I wasn't that, like, there's too much going on. I think moms feel bad, like if they can't be the PTO President and be in the classrooms all the time and do all the activities.
I think you can feel guilty about pretty much everything, you know?
Amber: Yeah.
Brooke: What you feed your kids. I have often thought my kids are only going to remember me just telling them to hurry up because it felt like that's all I ever said.
It was like, hurry up in the morning, and hurry up after school, and hurry up, whatever. But I think in the years that I have seen go by with my kids, you know, being babies to where they are now, solid relationships are solid relationships. And they love me as I am. I'm not sure that I would have been that great of a full-time mom.
And so I think we've just found a really good balance. And I've had to let some things go and I think that's okay.
Amber: Yeah. So I'm gonna zoom in because when you described looking at the dirty daycares and then you're like, fast forward, there was a lot of things that you learned and that you did, maybe mistakes, maybe great things to get you to the place.
Like, it's so cool that your 12 year old daughter, which like, I was 12. I remember what I was like. But she is like, I'm your best friend. We're best friends. Like what memories, what things immediately come to mind that got you to that place?
Brooke: A lot of memories of things that I didn't do the way that I thought I should.
Amber: Okay. Let's start there. That's a great. Because I think in my mind, like when I was thinking about our conversation coming up, I was like, there's just so many expectations of moms and how we think it's gonna be, and then when you work, things change.
Brooke: Yeah.
Amber: So like what expectations did you have to drop or like, just walk me through that whole thought process.
Brooke: Yeah, I mean, I think, women we have this just ideal that's completely unattainable. I saw a quote and I'm totally gonna misquote it, but it was like, women can do anything. And I totally believe that but it said, but not everything.
And I would add at least not all at once, like, it's not possible. And I think for me, it's been about deciding what I wanna choose to do. So, like, I didn't volunteer as the PTO president. I wasn't the classroom mom until I thought, you know, I could fit that in with my schedule.
I was the very last mom to pull into the parking lot at 5:29 because daycare closed at 5:30 and run in and get my kids because I had a demanding job. This wasn't just a job that I went to and left. Like one of my most recent positions, I was vice president of marketing at a big insurance company.
Amber: Yeah.
Brooke: So it wasn't something that I could just be like, well, whatever. It doesn't matter. It did matter what I did at work. And so, as I thought about this and prepared for our conversation, I think as women, working moms or not, it makes sense sometimes to make a list of the things, like make a list of the things that you're doing.
Make a list of the things that you feel you should do because we spend a lot of time saying, I should do this, or I should do that. I think it helps to get it down on paper and then you can kind of go, that's ridiculous.
Amber: Yeah
Brooke: I should be hiking Mount Everest and I should be making healthy meals every night. And you see it all together. You say, that doesn't make sense. I would never expect my sister or my best friend to do that. Why in the world would I expect it of myself? And then I think take a step back and say like, why do I feel like I should do those things and what do I want to do?
Amber: Yeah.
Brooke: I have spent many years meditating on the idea of what I choose. Like I choose my children and I choose, like thinking about the things that I'm actively choosing, in order to really focus my attention. And I think that's been super helpful.
Amber: Yeah, I think that especially women are afraid of that question a little bit. Like, well, I can't do what I want to do. Cause they're like afraid that they're gonna like mess it up or that they're gonna want something really bad. And it's funny cuz I'm like, what do you really want?
Brooke: Yeah.
Amber: And then when you answer that, it's like all good things. Like what you want is to play with your kids. You want to be there when they're having a bad day or like, maybe you do want to work. It's like, that's not so bad. It's not this like evil like, selfish, super bad thing that you want.
Brooke: Yeah. A friend of mine who's quite a bit older than me and is a therapist, told me something once that has stuck with me and she's like, there is no way to be a perfect mom, but there are a million ways to be a good enough mom.
And I love that it wasn't a cop out, it was just, there's no possible way to be a perfect mom. And I think we each bring unique abilities, unique talents to the job. Yeah, like some moms sit down and play games and do that stuff. Some moms do activities. I have a sister who's very different mom than me.
She homeschools her kids. She's super fun. I'm not that fun. But we both have really good relationships with our kids and have made that a priority. And I think when you realize you're not gonna screw your kids up, it just gives room to be yourself in that role.
Amber: Yeah. I feel like what you just said though, takes a level of awareness. Because I think especially when I was like a brand new mom, I was like, oh, good moms blank. Like I had like a list of things that good moms do. One of mine was like, good moms play pretend with their kids. Like they get on the floor and they play pretend.
And what's funny is, is like, I don't do that. And then I realized like my mom didn't do that, but somehow along the way I got this story that like, I'm not a good mom because I don't like doing that.
Brooke: When I was a young mom, Instagram wasn't a thing. I think now we see all these pictures of all these.. and we kind of aggregate it, right? We can see like 20 different moms doing 20 different things, but somehow we put it all together into one and say, well, I should be able to do everything that I'm seeing these 20 different people do all in one person.
Amber: Thatā€™s so good
Brooke: And that's ridiculous.
Amber: Yep. I think that that's really good intelligence to witness in yourself. Like, how often do I scroll and I just like, collect data about all these moms and I'm like, oh, good moms do everything that I've seen online. Right?
Brooke: Right. It's all in one.
Amber: All in one. It's like a thought error, you know?
Brooke: Right.
Amber: But it's like, that's the ideal. That's the standard that we create unknowingly, like, almost like unconsciously. And then it causes like a lot of internal drama and pain.
Brooke: I remember in one of my early role working positions, I hired a girl who was probably her second job out of college.
She was younger than me and I was pregnant with my first child. And, you know, we talked and I told, oh, I'm kind of guilty about like, how am I gonna make all this work? And she looked at me and she's like, oh, my mom worked like, we were happy.
And I knew from our discussions, you know, she spent the weekends with her mom and they were going to dinner, and they were going shopping. And I thought, oh, so like you can have a really good relationship with your mom, even if she works.
Like, it's possible. It's not mutually exclusive. Well, you've chosen a job over your kids. Like good luck with that. You know, that I could be a good mom.
Amber: Yeah. That's so good. I heard this once and Iā€™ve never articulated it this way, but the way that she articulated it was like, just because you work doesn't mean your kids aren't your priority.
If you're at work and your kid's sick, guess what you do. You leave work to go get your kid. That shows you what the priority is because if work was the priority, be like, well, that sucks. You know? And I think it just speaks to that, that relationship goes way beyond what you do. And you can't see this cuz this is a podcast, but I'm putting it in quotes. What you do as a mom, it's much more who you are as a person.
Brooke: Yes. I have been really fortunate in my career to work for people and work with people who family was a priority for them as well. In an industry that, you know, is very driven and very performance focused and whatever. But had a boss who understood, like you said, if a kid is sick at school and has a fever, like I've gotta go.
And you know, maybe I'm working a little bit that evening or whatever. You know, I think about this idea of balance. It's like everything is zen all the time and you know, this has its percentage and that has its percentage. I think it's more of like a juggle of where is my attention needed right now?
And sometimes it's needed at work and my kids can watch Lion King for the sixth time because I've gotta get this stuff done. And sometimes it's work. Like I get that this is important, but my child is more important and I'm gonna go take care of them. And I think I haven't seen any real damage come from that approach.
Like I think my kids feel loved and taken care of and I've had a pretty good career.
Amber: So I think, I'm thinking of like specifically people who either new in business or new and work and they've been a mom, but now they're working. Or it's like the mom who doesn't know any different, but like they're new both.
Like they have young kids and they're starting to work and they're like, this isn't what my mom did. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed or like guilty, or like, I don't know how to do it all. What would your advice be for that kind of person who's like, at the beginning stages where they are, like, what do I do?
I feel awful all the time about everything cuz I'm not good enough. Like ever. What would you say is most important thing for them to know?
Brooke: I don't think that that kind of guilt serves anyone. It doesn't make anything better to just sit around and feel guilty. It just makes things worse.
You kind of heap that on yourself. And so I think if you honor your intentions and what you are striving to do in multiple aspects of your life, and let the guilt go and maybe it's easier said than done. I certainly know that, but the guilt doesn't make you a better worker, doesn't make you a better mom.
It just takes any joy or any energy out of what you're doing. And so it kind of goes back
Amber to the idea of choosing, like, what are you creating? What are you working towards and how do you take action towards that in your life? Not that it's gonna be perfect, but I think if you feel guilty all the time, nothing's gonna be good. It's just not.
Amber: It's so true and I think it is easier said than done, but I think even just this conversation, listening to it, it's planting a seed, like this is a possibility for me. Where I could really be present in the moment and not be guilty about what I'm not doing. I think that's what it's like.
When I'm working, I'm guilty I'm not with my kids. And when I'm with my kids, I feel guilty that I'm not working. And it just distracts you from what you are doing. It like ruins the moment that you are in.
Brooke: Totally, and I think that's something for me that's been really important is trying to do all things for everyone at the same time is just an exercise. For me, it makes me angry, like I'm mad at everybody. I'm mad at work for imposing on my kids and I'm mad at my kids for imposing on my work. And so for me it's helped to kind of try to carve out those times where I'm working. And then I'm with my kids.
One thing that's been super important ,and I'm not a perfect mom by any means, but one of the things that I think I will be most proud of when I look back on my time as a mom is, bedtime. I read to my kids, all three of them individually, every night. And I put them to bed, you know, maybe it's not in accordance with every book on how to put kids to bed, but it was an important time for me as a working mom to have with my kids to read, to connect in that way, and then to lay with them and be close while they went to sleep.
And so I think all moms figure out how they wanna be a mom. And you figure out like, how do I connect with my kids in a way that means something to me and means something to them? And then, when I'm putting them to bed, I'm present for that. And if I ever find myself getting resentful, I'd really just rather like go and go to bed myself or whatever.
I think back to my values and what I'm choosing and why I'm doing it. And then I'm like, oh, actually I love this. I would never give up this time. And so I think it's always just going back to, what am I choosing to do and why? And like you said, being present. Not letting all the things compete because that's a hard way to live.
Amber: Yeah. And I think it's a recipe for insanity. I know I've had seasons in my.. especially years ago when I was newer to business and motherhood at the same time, and I felt like a crazy person because I was trying to like do everything that I saw my stay-at-home mom friends do. And everything that I saw my business owner friends do all at the same time.
And it was like crazy. And so I realized like there's a season. And even like mini seasons in a day, right? Like the season in the day that you were just describing, like, I'm in this moment with my kids, or I'm reading books. I'm not thinking about all the tasks open for work that I will find tomorrow. And it's almost like a closing of tabs in your mind.
Brooke: And sometimes I would have to open a work tab after I put them to bed. And finish some things up. And I think that's hard. Like it's hard to be tired, but when you feel really clear on what you've chosen to do, not what you're meant to do or what you should do, but what you've chosen to do.
Like I've chosen to have this career and to be a good whatever I am. And I've chosen to be a mom and this is what I want that to look like. That choosing gives energy, I think to those things you're doing. It's not just, I'm like randomly doing stuff.
Amber: Or that I have to or like I'm a victim, like I have to do this.
Brooke: Right.
Amber: Bringing about that conscious choice, I think, like you said, unleashes energy and intention and like at the heart of it, I think you said the word values, which I like.
That was what was on my mind. I'm like, am I living according to my values? Now that's gonna look different for everyone. And I think the big thing that we talked about Instagram, or even just like what's available to us to compare to is huge. Cuz it's like, well, are those your values or their values?
And is it unreasonable to try to live according to their values when you have these values, and you are living according to them.
Brooke: Right, and I think it goes back to like, something I've learned a lot from you is, what do you want? I can look at someone who's on a trip around the world and I could be like, oh, if only I could do that.
Amber: Do you really want it?
Brooke: Yeah. Or am I just gonna sit around and want everything that everyone else has? Or am I gonna be a real, make a powerful choice of here's how I want to live my life and move towards those values instead of absorbing? I think as women, it's easy for us to absorb the expectations of others and the lives of others and look around and say, oh, well so-and-so is doing this.
Maybe that's what I should do. And there's no power in that. There's no power in that.
Amber: This is a personal question, but did your mom work?
Brooke: No.
Amber: So when you were a young mom, was there ever a moment where you were like, is this the right thing?
Brooke: I think in the day-to-day, sometimes. You know, we kind of get pulled into this swirl sometimes, and it's like, oh my gosh, if I could just quit my job and like. But when I really took some time to think about it, it was like, you know what? This is the path for me. And when I thought about my upbringing, like I said, my mom was wonderful. She still is wonderful.
Amber: Yeah.
Brooke: And I had a wonderful childhood, but when I think back on, what do I remember about that and why was it so wonderful? I don't, in my memory, have a memory of every single day and every single minute we spent together.
Right. Like, I remember making cookies, or I remember reading stories or you know, just different things like that. And it's like I can create those wonderful moments with my kids without being there all the time. I can create something that I think they will remember and feel good about and that I feel good about.
Amber: Yeah. It's funny when you like start to challenge your thoughts. It's like, when did we decide that being with your kids a hundred percent of the time was the definition of a good mom? We didn't, it's like this unconscious story. And so I'm curious what your thoughts are on between quality time and quantity of time.
Brooke: Oh, you know, I think obviously I've sort of leaned toward quality time. I think being around, you know, on the weekends and stuff, sometimes just being there is super helpful. But I think for me it made it. Easier to really focus, kinda like we were talking about before, about being present and really giving them all of me when we were together, doing things than not being around all the time.
So I feel like I have been able to create good relationships and some really special moments that are more quality sometimes than quantity.
Amber: Yeah. And things they will actually remember. A lot of times, the day to day, like I don't have a distinct memory of getting ready for school because we did it every day. So it's just like not something special that I remember with my mom. You know, I remember the special times, which is kind of interesting.
This is another question that I was thinking about, what would you say to someone, just cuz sometimes this comes up in my coaching where it's like they're getting like direct criticism from people that they love, whether that's from their own mom or mother-in-law or their sister or other women, mostly other women in their life. And it's almost like sneaky, like, well, I would never wanna work and be away from my kids. I just love homeschooling. I can't imagine being away from my kids that much or like, you know, it's just really important from like a religious perspective to be the mom.
Like the silent, almost like sneaky. You know what I'm talking about, like criticism without like outright criticism, but it is like a criticism of the lifestyle of a working mom and it's hard to hear sometimes or like maybe our minds just run amok, you know, make it mean something it doesn't. But like what would you say to someone who's experiencing whether direct or criticism of that life that they've chosen?
Brooke: I think when you have actively made a choice, and feel good about that for you, people are always gonna have an opinion on everything that we do.
Amber: On everything. Yeah, that's so true.
Brooke: Will always have an opinion. And I think, you know, some of those relationships, maybe family, I fortunately have not experienced that. Now, I lived much of my working life in an area where many moms worked, and so it was kind of a norm, and so I didn't get a lot of criticism either that way or from my family. But I think when you make a choice, it's just, oh, I could never stand to be away from my kids. Well, you know, that's what works for me.
You have to just own your choice and own your life and I guess develop sort of a thick skin that allows other people to have opinions that don't matter because they get to choose for their life. They don't get to choose for your life.
Amber: And I think it comes back to like almost like we're remembering like I made this choice for me, and for my kids and family. But also for me, and I think it's when it's like wishy-washy, like, did I make this choice? Is it the right choice? It's almost like mental health. Like you're just living in this, I don't know if this is for me, I don't know if I made the right choice versus like I did choose this.
Brooke: There was a better choice, but that I didn't make!
Amber: Yes. And I want you to speak to that cuz this is something that you said before we started recording. Like, how do you know there wasn't another better choice out there?
Brooke: Because I think we spent our whole lives thinking, oh, like this is challenging. Maybe there was a better choice that I should have made and in my observation, and I have friends that run the gamut, right? Friends that work full-time. I have a friend who is an OB/GYN high risk doctor, right? Like probably as significant a time expenditure on work as they come. And then I have, like I mentioned, my sister who's a brilliant stay-at-home mom who homeschools your kids.
I know the whole spectrum. And I don't think I've ever known or talked to a mom that was like, this is a breeze. This is so easy. Bring it on.
Amber: What? You mean that's not a real thing?
Brooke: I don't think it is. I don't think there's a holy grail of, if I had made this set of choices, my life would be so easy because that's not the point. Like I really believe that we are here in this life to grow. And no one grows by just breezing through anything.
Amber: And think about how boring it would be, just as an aside.
Brooke: Totally.
Amber: We get bored. The challenge is what makes us alive.
Brooke: And helps us figure out our values and figure out what we can do and figure out what's important to us. Like if we didn't have those pressures, itā€™d be kind of not very interesting I think. So I don't think there's a, not an easy choice, but there is an aligned choice that is right for us. And I think women who say, well, I made the wrong choice cuz this is hard. Well, like it's challenging.
Being a mom is challenging in the best kinds of ways, right? Like I think I'm a much more developed person than I would've been if I didn't have children, but it's not like shoot, life is challenging. I went wrong. I don't think that's true.
Amber: It's not, nothing went wrong. Like it's not like you made the wrong choice just because it's hard. Which I think is a thought error that a lot of people experience. It's like, well, it's hard, so I must have done something wrong. My kid is going through a hard time, so I must have messed up somewhere. And like what's interesting is sometimes, I don't even think that's a bad way to think.
I'm like, maybe I did. It's more of about curiosity. I'm open to the possibility that I made a mistake. But it doesn't mean my lifestyle is wrong as a working mom.
Brooke: Right. And I think it's a continual evaluation of what you need, what your family needs, like. Yeah. I think curiosity and evolution is the point of everything. But I don't think there's an easy button that you just push.
Amber: That's really what I was hoping you were gonna share on this actually.
Brooke: I'm sorry. I mean if someone contacts you after this and says they have it, I'm totally interested as well. I don't think that it exists. I think it's finding the way and finding purpose and choosing the life that you want and doing the things that are working.
Amber: And loving both. I remember the first time I admitted to myself one, that I was ambitious and two, that I like working. It almost felt like taboo to say because that wasn't really like talked about out loud, even though people do you know what I mean? Like it wasn't like, oh yeah, well I love working. Do you love working?
Brooke: I was just gonna say, so after I had my first child, I went out on maternity leave for whatever, it was like three months of no work, and an adjustment to a first baby, in my experience was very challenging. And I was an older mom and I'm just like, oh my gosh, I'm way too young to be figuring this out.
And I was 30 years old when I had my first child. So people do it way younger and do it successfully, but that's how I felt. I was just like, I am completely incompetent. What in the world?
Amber: They just let you go home with this thing? Yeah, I know.
Brooke: And then you're like, I can't shower. Like, how is that possible? This little person is just, anyway. Life just turns upside down. So I was home for three months and went back to work. And found a lovely daycare, like a lovely place for her to go. And that's the other thing I would say is my idea of my village who has helped me raise my children, these people are in my heart forever.
And they have made such a difference in our family and with my children. The people who have loved them. Not like a mom loves them, but in a very real and meaningful way. I wouldn't negate that, but we found a great daycare and dropped her off. And of course it was traumatic the first time and I got to work and I was like, I feel like myself.
And so having that work, at least for me, allowed me to sort of be me for part of the day.
Amber: Yeah. I resonate, myself.
Brooke: And then I could go home and figure out this mom thing, which I think I have figured out better than I did right after I had my first child. But yeah, do I always love work? No, but do I feel that that's a place where I have made a meaningful contribution? Yes. And do I feel like I can do both, and I have chosen to do both, and it's been the right thing for my life? Yes.
Amber: That's cool. I think there's probably some people who are listening to that haven't gotten to that place. I feel like I'm at that place. I wasn't always, mostly because of expectations and comparison, right? I'm like, oh, there's definitely like written in the stars a right way to be a mom and I haven't found it yet. You know what I mean? Instead of really coming down to personal agency where it's like, I choose this and I'm okay with my choices, including the consequences of the choices.
Every time you choose something, it's like the stick, right? Yes, you get to pick up this side where it's like the things you love. And you pick up the other side where it's maybe the things you don't, but no matter what you choose, that exists. It's not because it's wrong.
Right. There's new challenges, I think especially for moms who wanna be a good mom and be good at your work. There's unique challenges, but you chose it and you can handle it.
Brooke: There is power in that. During one of the more challenging times of my career where I did have a really stressful, kind of high profile job and I had three little kids.
One was special needs and I'm trying to like, do all the things. I remember going up the elevator to work and I would repeat like I am enough. I have enough. Because I think so often we're like, oh my gosh, I don't have enough time. I'm not a good enough whatever. And so just to come back and to know, and I know that you're spiritual and that's a really important part of my life.
I'm doing things that I feel called and inspired to do. And it's not just as a mom and it's not just as a career, but like. There is heavenly help, I think to do all those things. And it doesn't serve us to sit around saying, I don't have enough. I don't have enough time. I, well, maybe there is enough time for the things that are the most important.
And yes, you probably are gonna have to let some things go and it's okay. I was thinking about, why do we feel like we should do things and that list we talked about and how often we as women put things on the list that we think, well, I should do this because I need to appear a certain way or I need to be admired by others or whatever.
Like who cares? We've moved, like, I wasn't the PTO room mom for my kids' class, and if anyone judged me, like I'm not even in contact with them anymore. It doesn't matter.
Amber: I agree, but what happens when your kid's like, why don't you volunteer in my classroom? What if it's your kid that wants more from you?
Brooke: And that will happen.
Amber: Yeah. What are you saying?
Brooke: Why aren't you going on my field trip? Well, I've got work that I've gotta do. My youngest, her love language, I think is quality time. And so sometimes that's hard, but I figure out some other way to fill that need that she has.
You know, and I make an effort. I try to do some things, but I can't do all the things. And by the way, neither can any mom.
Amber: Neither can any, that's what I say. I'm like, no matter what kind of mom you are, there'll be moments that you can't give your kid, what they're asking for has nothing to do actually with your work schedule. This is the condition of life.
Brooke: And I think one of the things as a working mom, like I remember being like, well, my kids can only do activities after work. Right. I can't take them to do activities at 3:30 when school gets out. And you figure it out and you find other options and it's okay.
So I think we feel guilty about a lot of things that it's not necessary to feel guilty. No one is going to be scarred forever because they had dance class on Saturday morning instead of Monday right after school. But I think it's really easy to judge ourselves and to take on this guilt that comes from nowhere except, I don't know from ourselves.
Amber: I think you just spoke to a tool that you didn't articulate, but I think that you're creative. You're like, oh, we can't do dance class at 3:00 PM but we can do it on Saturday mornings. I think that that's like the kind of stuff that makes it work. You're like, I'm willing to find out how to make this work for our family. It might not look like other people, but I can do this.
Brooke: Yeah, totally.
Amber: So good. Kind of fun. It's a challenge. I think that's like the perception that we choose matters, you know, instead of being like, oh, I'm not doing anything right according to these random people on the internet.
It's like, no. Like what feels good to me and my family? What works? What I always say, keep your blinders on. Really being focused on what's happening inside your own home and how you feel about it, regardless of what the people think.
Brooke: Yes. What you need, what your kids need.
Amber: Which changes, like you said, it's gonna look different.
Brooke: But instead of a field trip going and having lunch and going shopping or you know, whatever, on a Saturday. I have found that works really well.
Amber: So good. So much gold. Well, if you were to sit down with a working mom and like just had one piece of wisdom to share with her. And you're just gonna share this gold golden nugget with her. Maybe she's overwhelmed, maybe she's tired, maybe she's doubting herself. Maybe she's just like, my kids are in my way of my dreams. Or maybe, ah, my dreams are in the way of my kids. You know, whatever. What would you share with her?
Brooke: I think I would talk to her about what she wants to create in her life. And, you know, maybe it's an adjective, maybe it's a tangible thing, but like, what does she wanna create? And I think for me, like thinking about what I wanna create with my kids, connection is what I wanna create with my kids. And there's about 6 million ways to do that.
And what do I wanna create in my work life? It's accomplishment or, you know, whatever. I wanna create a business or whatever. And there's a lot of ways to do that. And I think especially now, there are so many different options to do all of those things.
Amber: It's so true.
Brooke: We can create in a bunch of different ways and I think kind of pushing yourself to not say, well I wanna create this and this is the way to do it. There's lots of ways and I think that when we choose what we wanna create, there is a lot of help to assist us in doing that.
Amber: Absolutely.
Brooke: And it gives us a real focused direction, right? Like part of it is gonna be, I'm choosing to create this and this stuff has no place in that. And so I'm just gonna let it go. And I'm gonna focus on what I'm creating and feel really good about that and make a conscious choice so that when people say, well, why are you doing that? Well, because I know what I'm doing.
Amber: Yes.
Brooke: And I'm doing it consciously.
Amber: And I did this on purpose. Yes.
Brooke: Yes. And I'm owning it. No, it's not the right choice for anyone else, but it is the right choice for me. And as it changes, I will be creative and I will evolve. And that's powerful. That's a powerful life.
Amber: That's so good. Thank you, Brooke.
Brooke: You're welcome.
Amber: And I think too, like you know, I love the word conscious. Obviously, this whole podcast is called the Conscious Code Podcast.
Brooke: Yes.
Amber: But I think that that speaks like personal power and like, that's what I want more moms to know is like, you have power. You're not like a victim to whatever you've chosen. And there's lots of creative solutions for you to create what you want.
Like you said, like if that's what you want, connection. There's lots of ways. There's not just one golden way, there's lots of ways to get what you want.
Brooke: Right. And it's not, well, Brooke reads to her kids every night, so I guess that's what I have to do. Like, there's moms who go to the park every day. There's moms who, you know, do amazing craft projects. There are moms who get down on the floor and play pretend.
Amber: Play your way.
Brooke: Do it your way because that's where you bring your uniqueness to the role, right? I mean, we're all different. And that's where you can find the joy and bring, I think, what your kids need in a really unique way.
Amber: Thank you. How can people find you and get connected with you? Because now they're like, wait, where's Brooke? This is amazing.
Brooke: You can find me on Instagram, @brookebmeyer. And, looking to offer some resources for working moms here going forward. So it's a subject that's close to my heart because I've lived it. And I know it can be challenging, but also it can be really joyful.
Amber: Yeah. And as a side note, real talk, I met you at a retreat that was like the first time that I met you. And you like to joke that you're like, you know, whatever, not Instagram worthy or whatever. But you are real, and you talk in real terms, which I think more people need to hear because we leave our little world of Instagram and then like our kids crying, there's Cheerios on the ground, you're overwhelmed, and maybe haven't showered today, or you know what I mean? In real life, I think that you can speak to what that actually looks like, not the glamorized version.
Brooke: Yeah.
Amber: Which is why I wanted you on the podcast today. So thank you for hanging out with me and sharing all your wisdom. You're amazing.
Brooke: I have nothing if I'm not real. So thank you, Amber.
Amber: But the world needs more of that. So thank you for being you, and thank you for being here today.
Brooke: Thank you.
